Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering what everybodies opinions were on the minimum size for a male BP to breed is? Ive heard that as long as hes producing sperm plugs that he will breed successfully, and ive also heard that he wont produce as many if hes smaller. I also have a question about the age of a female BP. Is an eleven year old BP too old to breed safely or would it be more dangerous? Any advice on these topics would be awesome, thanks in advance.

Jason

Although a number of breeders have successfully bred from males as young as seven months of age, it would be adviseable to leave a male until it is at least 12 to 18 months of age before it is first used to breed with.
Eleven years of age is not old for a Ball python female. Ball pythons are known to live in excess of forty years,and have produced fertile eggs well into their twenties.

Good question. Take a look at the following article. It may help. As for 11 years of age for the female, I'd say she's just fine.
Male Ball Python Breeding Weight

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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I don't think there is any size - but it's more about maturity - we have heard people say they have 400 gram males less than a year old produce viable clutches and others saying their 2 year olds don't want to have anything to do with breeding - there are no guarantess - you can have a small male that produces sprem that will still not breed for another year or two.

As for the females - yes they live a long time, and can prodcue viable clutches into old age - however - I've heard more than one big breeder and several smaller ones say that older "pet" females are horrible breeders. So that is also something that you might want to keep in mind.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

11.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

>>As for the females....I've heard more than one big breeder and several smaller ones say that older "pet" females are horrible breeders....

Well, I won’t ask you to name names. But do YOU believe that?

Trying to think logically about that statement, I can’t understand why it would be so. We wouldn’t draw such a conclusion if we were comparing pet cats versus feral cats; pet dogs versus feral dogs; captive-raised mice and rats versus their wild counterparts, would we?

One would think under optimal conditions, one would produce optimal (certainly not “horrible”) results.

Now, if you’re referring to the situations where breeders buy big, gravid females essentially right out of the crates from Africa, hold them until they drop their eggs, then if they don’t adapt pass them on down the sales chain to eventually become some first-time python buyer’s pet – then that’s a different story.

-Joan

An 11 year old female is like a 40ish year old woman or perhaps mid-30s. They are still very viable breeders, at least for us, but getting close to when you see more breeding issues...though I know folks who have had 20 year olds breed fine...that being less normal.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

>>An 11 year old female is like a 40ish year old woman or perhaps mid-30s. They are still very viable breeders, at least for us, but getting close to when you see more breeding issues...though I know folks who have had 20 year olds breed fine...that being less normal.
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>>Mike and David at 3-D Pythons

Hi "Mike and David"

On what do you base your statement that 11 years is “getting close to when you see more breeding issues”? What sort of “issues” have your females experienced? What is the oldest ball python which you have successfully hatched, grown up and then bred?

Why do you say that it is “less normal” for 20 year old ball pythons to breed?

Fun topic. Thanks for your thoughts.

-Joan

P.S. Just for kicks, if I were comparing a ball python to a human female, I’d guess that 11 year old python is equivalent to an 18 year old woman.

Hey Jason,

Just considering a 25 year life average...though they can go 30-40 a mid life point for 25 years is 12.5 and in human equiavalent that would be a middle aged woman. I am sure a lot depends on if they have been bred every year or not, I know there was one bred at I though 30 years old no problems. We have had retics for years transitioned to Balls about 8 years ago. We have some many in the 6-10 year range and lots of little ones, and a few that from records should be 20-25. I would base my answer on those and the experiences of other breeders i have talked to at shows. We have had problems with eggs dying for no reason, females being bred and not ovulating, and small clutches with older females. That seemed similar to some problems others noted to me at these shows. As always it would be nice if there were extensive studies rather than antectdotal evidence...but the forums are great ways to exchange info we have and often conflicting to spirit discussion and hopefully help shed better light on these complex subjects.

For comparsion a human female is typically fertile around 12-13 the Ball Python 3 years. I would suggest the Ball Pyhton is human 18 by 4-5 tops...by 20 she has had 17 years of breeding oportunity or roughly 75% of its life so far and 2/3 overall. So I think 18 is off...but that's just my thoughts and experience.

Mike
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

Hi Jason -

If a male ball python of any age or weight is producing viable sperm, there is no reason to expect the mere act of breeding to be detrimental to his health. If people advise against this, you should ask them to give you specific reasons why this might in any way be harmful or otherwise not advisable, hopefully backed up with examples from their personal experiences. Of course, the presence of sperm plugs does not guarantee viable sperm; the act of copulation doesn’t guarantee fertile eggs; a naïve male may not have his act together the first time around, etc., etc.

An eleven year old female ball python should be in the prime of her reproductive life. But actually, we don’t know for sure how far that “prime” extends. I see no reason why a healthy 35 or 40 year old animal with good fat stores would not be a perfectly suitable candidate for breeding. Does anyone here have such an animal? Probably not. At least, not yet.

-Joan

>>I was wondering what everybodies opinions were on the minimum size for a male BP to breed is? Ive heard that as long as hes producing sperm plugs that he will breed successfully, and ive also heard that he wont produce as many if hes smaller. I also have a question about the age of a female BP. Is an eleven year old BP too old to breed safely or would it be more dangerous? Any advice on these topics would be awesome, thanks in advance.
>>
>>Jason

I didn't mean to imply 11 was unsafe to breed the female...rather you are getting more toward ages when issues might arrise with the eggs. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I am digging through articles and books but I was pretty sure a zoo had a 30-40 year old female breed.

We have seen the issues I noted in females that bred very well under 10 and beyond 11/15 they had the egg issues. One can ask the logical question I cannot answer. Was this age of the snake or burnout on breeding. If they all live 40 years then Jason I'd say 18-20 human equiv years is about right at 11. I don't think though Balls live 40 is typical...I believe the average is biased toward 25 and perhaps 30.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

Hi ya "Mike and David"!

No, I didn't think you were implying that breeding an 11 year old python of either gender was unsafe.

And stop calling me "Jason" will ya?

-Joan

>>I didn't mean to imply 11 was unsafe to breed the female...rather you are getting more toward ages when issues might arrise with the eggs. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
>>
>>I am digging through articles and books but I was pretty sure a zoo had a 30-40 year old female breed.
>>
>>We have seen the issues I noted in females that bred very well under 10 and beyond 11/15 they had the egg issues. One can ask the logical question I cannot answer. Was this age of the snake or burnout on breeding. If they all live 40 years then Jason I'd say 18-20 human equiv years is about right at 11. I don't think though Balls live 40 is typical...I believe the average is biased toward 25 and perhaps 30.
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>>Mike and David at 3-D Pythons

But I like Jason more that's my nephew's name...seriously though sorry about that nephew Freudian slip.

David reminded me of one other problem we had was an egg bound female that was 15 who had bred well before. When we had the eggs destroyed to save her at the Vet,,,he commented that this was perhaps an issue of here age and long term cummulative effects of repeated breeding. Don't know if he had real proof or was just speculating.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com