Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Guys the pics look good of the pimbura,molurus or whatever you want to call them. They all are great looking. I have no position on this whatsoever, just thought I would clarify a point with Fish & Wildlife on the status of pimbura and their interpretation of interstate commerce. Apparently the original description of P.m.pimbura by Deringaylia (sp?) was sunk many years ago by a German Taxonomist whose name escapes me at the moement.

Below is a responce to and email I sent to one of the Fish & Wildlife representatives with just hypothetical questions on transport. I was a little suprised by the interpretation.

#1: There was an update in the taxonomy from Python molurus pimbura to Python molurus molurus. These two species designations are synonymous and the correct updated taxonomy is Python molurus molurus. Python molurus molurus is listed under the U.S. Endangered Species Act (ESA), as were specimens under the older taxonomy Python molurus pimbura. Specimens that
are either specifically the subspecies Python molurus bivittatus or the species Python molurus are not listed under the ESA and would therefore not require ESA authorization for interstate commerce transactions.

#2: If a resident of a state (say FL) went across state lines to another state (say GA) and purchased an ESA listed species, this would be considered interstate commerce under the ESA and would require prior ESA authorization from this office (for foreign species listed under the ESA).

Hope this helps. Please let me know if I can be of additional assistance.

how are they defining just the species listing Python molurus with no subspecies classification? Just curious about that binomial, as it would technically cover all three subspecies. I remember many years back that it has always been listed in the ESA that molurus molurus = molurus pimbura. Thanks for the info and nice Indian you have there, looks like one from central India.

Kelly

Kelly,

Yes I was a bit unclear on that myself. It was not the question I actually asked and I was very surprised that they are saying pimbura was an endangered species also. I don't remember ever hearing the government requested pimbura to be protected like the government of India did with the molurus. It is so hard to find the real facts and they have never looked at the need for protection since 1978 or so. I know biologist in India that laugh when told they are rare and endangered in the wild. I am sure the same holds true for pimbura. What needs to happen is a lobby of taxpaying citizens bring pressure on the Feds to re-evaluate the status and back it up with some biological studies to actually document a need for the money being spent to continue the protection. It seems strange they can suggest taking off the bald eagle and any other animal in the United States but can't bring current all of the other international species.

Very perplexing predicament!

It is the lumping of the two subspecies together by CITES officials, to make enforcement easier, that is the main problem. If that had not occurred, the ESA would not have them lumped together as well, and interstate transport would not require permits for pimbura. The ESA regs regarding the classification of molurus subspecies are based off the CITES Appendix listings for no other reason than convenience. It is highly unlikely that even if pimbura is split off from molurus molurus based on future studies, that it will also be re-listed by CITES as Appendix II, or de-listed from the ESA by US Fish and Wildlife. That just seems to be their pattern lately.

Kelly

Is there a phone number or a web site I can go to in order to confirm this? I find this very interesting and I'd like to know for sure. Not saying your wrong or I don't believe you, I'd really just like to find out for sure. Thanks!
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John Light
JL Exotics
Contact Me
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http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html

JL
This is the cites site that later came along after the Endangered Species Act in 1976 and choose to accept a reclassification of pimbura to molurus. There was a paper published formally sinking the subspecies but what they did is just synonimysize the subspecies pimbura to molurus and extend the range chart of Appendix I protection to include the island of Sri Lanka.

If you go to the site, scroll all the way down to the last entry and you will see in green the name Python m. pimbura (synomous) I believe is the way the state it. However they conveniently give no more information on the subject. If you move over the tabs at the top, you will see the Appendix I range in green and it now includes the islands off the coast of India.

There is a place you can leave comments and I have left them before, always leave an email and ask for a reply. They ususally will reply in a few days. If more herpers would quit "fearing" the federal law enforcement and just hammer them to re-classify captive hatched indians to Appendix II or petition them to take off the subspecies molurus totally, we would not need all the interstate permits for captive animals that many are in the F4 and F5 generations.

You can follow links all day on the websites they provide but it is not very concise nor helpfull in determining anything about the laws!! Your just expected by osmosis to "know" the law! Incredible but everyone must realize that on the law enforcement end of things - convictions = moving up the ladder. Even the Highway patrol are "expected" to write a quota per day of tickets.

Hope this helps.

You can also call the Fish and Wildlife Office in Virgina. 1-800-358-2104, ask for permits section for Reptiles. Most can answer your questions but they are not law enforcement and law enforcement often interprets what is written in a different light than a biologist reading the law!

Write your congressmen! I would love to not have to spend the new CBW price of $250.00 for a permit. It was $25.00 2 years ago!

n/p
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John Light
JL Exotics
Contact Me
Web Site