Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what do you all think of this cage? it is 24x18x18. the frame is made from square aluminum and the sides top and bottom are pvcx. it is kind of a prototype, i am thinking of offering it along with the other type of cage (cage on top) on my website.
praises/gripes welcome

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scaledhabitats.com

I like the basic idea of that style cage. I have looked into building my own, even going as far as to order the components.

A couple of comments.

1) One benefit of a cage like this is the ability to knock it down. In your picture it appears the Sintra Panels are riveted to the aluminum stock. That's how I experimented as well.

But they also make aluminum extrusions for these connectors where you can fit 1/4" plastic panels into grooves, which make it even easier to break the cage down. It would also allow for the replacement of damaged panels. The extrusions are more expensive, however.

2) Maybe build in a litter-dam of sorts.

3) I believe there is also an extrusion where the glass track is built in.

4) Will the customer be expected to silicone the edges of the Sintra?

I like the basic idea of that style cage. I have looked into building my own, even going as far as to order the components.

A couple of comments.

1) One benefit of a cage like this is the ability to knock it down. In your picture it appears the Sintra Panels are riveted to the aluminum stock. That's how I experimented as well.

i did use rivets, but in the future i do plan to use the grooves you are talking about, either 1/4" aluminum channel attached to the stock or stock with the grooves extruded right in, as you mention below. this will also allow for the option of glass instead of plastic

But they also make aluminum extrusions for these connectors where you can fit 1/4" plastic panels into grooves, which make it even easier to break the cage down. It would also allow for the replacement of damaged panels. The extrusions are more expensive, however.

2) Maybe build in a litter-dam of sorts.

i am planning a litter dam as well. i am going to use 1"x2" pvc or aluminum angle. i will probably attach the 1"side to the stock in the bottom door area, then attach the glass track to the angle(sandwich the angle between the glass track and the aluminum stock) then the 2" side will create a litter dam. ill let you know if this works well.

3) I believe there is also an extrusion where the glass track is built in.

4) Will the customer be expected to silicone the edges of the Sintra?

i have thought about this, and i am leaning towards yes. it really depends on shipping. with the sides,top and bottom siliconed in the cage will still be collapsable, but only into six sides. without silicone the whole thing can be dismantled the answer to this question may be learned through trial and error

also i believe i will add a screw to the stock where the connectors are to keep them from coming loose. the thing is sturdy but not as much as i would like. what do you think?
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scaledhabitats.com

also i believe i will add a screw to the stock where the connectors are to keep them from coming loose. the thing is sturdy but not as much as i would like. what do you think?

There does seem to be variance in how well the nylon connectors fit into the extrusions. A screw through the aluminum and into the connector still allows for a pivot point. I think strips of aluminum stock angled across each panel and screwed into place works better, but this is a lot more expensive.

I would find a different source of aluminum stock first and see if this helps. Or you could encourage customers to use some hot glue during assembly, but there are risks with this and it means the cages can't be taken apart.

Another choice is to build these from square PVC pipe and fittings. Then the Sintra could be solvent-welded right to the pipe.

I think you'll find there are shortcomings to this design, especially with large cages. But it's doable and I think there is a market for it.

There does seem to be variance in how well the nylon connectors fit into the extrusions. A screw through the aluminum and into the connector still allows for a pivot point. I think strips of aluminum stock angled across each panel and screwed into place works better, but this is a lot more expensive.

I think you'll find there are shortcomings to this design, especially with large cages. But it's doable and I think there is a market for it.

actually, when i first set out to try this design i planned on using the square pvc pipe because the ease of solvent welding appealed to me. i decided to go with aluminum though after much thought because 1) the aluminum is stronger, more durable, and will last longer, and 2) the pvc cost more. i would probably have gone with aluminum even if it was the more expensive of the two, but it was hands down aluminum after cost is figured in.

i think the 2' cage i built is sturdy enough with just screws in the connectors, but with bigger cages, i think you may be right about the cross bracing.
perhaps i could put three way connectors halfway up and add an additional horizontal length of tubing on the bottom, sides, and back. this would increase the cost, but naturally bigger cages cost more.
on second thought, as i read this back, the more connectors i add the weaker it may become. that cross bracing with strips of aluminum you mentioned may be the way to go.

i am sure ill try all these ideas. it took over a year to get production going on the top cage in the picture. the beauty of this tubing design is that changes can be easilly made and problems can be addressed quickly, unlike the molded plastic design we have which was supposed to be out in december (prototype model came to me with a 1/4" door ledge instead of a 1" that is why you see the swing down door in the pic instead of a sliding door)
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scaledhabitats.com

Okay, I have to ask where you guys are getting those corner connectors. I've been looking for something to replace the lovely aluminum welds that I tend to burn through.

Jason

I don't remember the site. I found others but one particular place was cheaper and easier to deal with.

I found it through google.

Any idea what you searched for?

Thanks
Jason

Now that I think about it, I think I took the patent # off of one of the connectors when I was getting a behind the scenes tour at a zoo.

I ended up finding three places. For the life of me I can't remember one of them. Bighurt still has one of the catalogs but I believe it was the most expensive by far.

http://www.brunnerent.com/Tools/Portfolio/frontend/itemlist.asp?type=2&size=0&lngDisplay=2&strMetaTag

or http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/outwater_plastics/lg_display.cfm?page_number=OPI-195
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scaledhabitats.com

Those are two of the three sources I had. Brunnerent was the cheapest overall but Outwater had more things I needed for other projects. That's been a couple of years ago now.

ya outwater has TONS of stuff. thier catalog is prefered reading

over 1100 pages! read it cover to cover... funny the things that get builders worked up
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scaledhabitats.com

My mental lapse left me determined to figure out the other place I priced this stuff. The company is eztube.com. I had to dig through a lot of emails to find it. I believe Bighurt ordered their catalog and found them to be the most expensive, at least compared to Outwater and Brunnerent.

But they do offer more extrusions.

Have you ever tried to weight one of your cages down with a lot of heavy substate, etc.? That's one of my big concerns with this design.

But I'm still thinking about it for my arboreal ratsnakes.

thanks for the heads up on eztube.com i think i like them the best so far, especially the captive 1/4" panel extrusions, and the built in glass track. also the reinforced extra long connectors appeal to me. as far as weight i assume you mean floor strength. i think i will have to reinforce it with strips of aluminuim, especially on cages longer than 2'.
as far as the overall strength i got this pic from eztube.com. they say thats 1000 lbs on there. i could literally put my truck tires on 4 cages and they would hold.

the link to the crea8 tubing is something new i am gonna try. i have some samples on thier way to me. ill keep you posted. it seems promising.

crea8 tubing

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scaledhabitats.com

Well I thought you already knew about those extrusions, so I'm glad I dug it up.

They also have a picture of a 55 gallon aquarium being held up by the stuff. I was a bit surprised to see that.

Hey, if you want to discuss some of this stuff off-board, just email me. I know you have a potential retail venture so I'm sure there is some stuff you may want to keep off the board. You don't have to worry about hiding it from me, since I already know about the stuff.

thanks guys. I appreciate it.

Jason

Jason,

The third one was EzTube.com. Took a while to find it.

Scaled Habitats noticed it's a different system than what is available through Outwater and Brunerent. The online catalog is different from the last time I checked so it might be worth looking into.

Did you ever make your project with PVC corner angle? I think I recall you looking for it.

Yes, I did. Worked very well actually.

I've been playing with the aluminum alot lately though and will probably stay there for a while. I appreciate all the info. When I get some finished I'll post pics.

Jason

Looking forward to the pictures. Do you have any pictures of the project you build with the PVC angle?

>>Yes, I did. Worked very well actually.
>>
>>I've been playing with the aluminum alot lately though and will probably stay there for a while. I appreciate all the info. When I get some finished I'll post pics.
>>
>>Jason

np

.
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scaledhabitats.com

all that stuff is covered in the terms of service. i know it is a lot of stuff to read but there are rules in there that make sure these forums dont get a lot of "commercials". a few of mine got deleted before because my sig picture was too big. i emailed them and they were very nice. they directed me to where in the terms i was wrong. the best thing to do if your messages get deleted is take it with a grain of salt and learn from it. i am sure KS has better things to do that delete posts. i am sorry that it happened to you but there is a better way to deal with it than putting F KS.com at the bottom of your post. i would suggest you cool down before you post anymore today. i have seen your postings for a while on here and it would e a shame to get banned because of a tantrum. i hope that didnt come off too "jerky" it wasnt meant that way.
and thank you for the compliment on the cage. the top one isnt pvcx it is molded hdpe.
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scaledhabitats.com