Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How big are pigmy's full grown, and also are they hardier than veiled's or more delicate? I want to make sure to care for it the best I can... I know what to get but I have never owned one so I want to make 100% sure I forget nothing and I figure the best thing to do is ask people who own chameleons!! So what do you have to care for your chams?? Oh, what size enclosure for each of the above?? And has anyone dealt with Reptile Depot?? I want to have the enclosure set up and ready before I bring the cham home. Thanks!!

The two species you are interested in a incredibly different. Complete opposites Genus'.

As a general rule, most "Pygmy Chameleons" are 4" or less, However a few have been recorded larger. But since there are 20 or more identified species you'll have to narrow down which one you are speaking of. The most commun seems to be Rhampholeon brevicaudatus, often called "Bearded Pygmy Chameleon" and sometimes, more often lately they have been mislabled as "Kenyan Pygmy Chameleons".

The large majority of Pygmy chameleons are Wild Caught and imported. Although they arn't particularly difficult to breed, after you have an established group, but because of the low number of babies they produce and that it can be difficult to actually maintain their environment during some of North Americas intense seasons, you could be reproducing just enough to cover your mortality rate. Hardy? Hmmm, Hardly. These little boogers are pretty small and parasite treatment often leads to death itself. But if you do manage to buy more than a few, keep them in a roomy enclosure with the correct temperature, humidity, mold free, you could keep a few alive.

With the propper care, a Veild Chameleon CAN be a hardy chameleon. There are many ways to give good care and husbandry to them. The most important thing is, that you study the signs of problems, because when you have one, (Yes you most likely will) you need to identify it as soon as possible to provide treatment or to correct something.

I recomend you start with Veilds. Find yourself a Breeder that is trustworthy and recomended to you.

Although a bit outdated, Adcham has trustworthy information on many chameleon species. Utilise the Link below to your best, and pick up some books on the specific chameleon you are interested in.

Also below, a photo of one of mine. Cute isn't he. Its hilarious when they "Play Dead"

Find your species here.

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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

I agree, I would not recommend pygmy as your first. If you go to the link below you will find adhcam as well as many other sites for you to do your research. I suggest looking them over thoroughly and bookmarking for future reference. When you get to chameleonnews.com you will find a couple articles by "roo" (a forum member)on the pygmy chams. this will give you a good idea of what is involved. That site has lots of info on all aspects of keeping chams. Go to their "article reference" section for an index of all.

It is good that you do your research in advance and take your time before purchasing. Lots to know. As for the seller you mentioned...let's just say, as Will suggested, you find yourself a reputable breeder, one who might specialize a bit more in chams rather than in dozens of different herps. It is strongly recommended that you do not get a cham any younger than 3 - 4 months old and you might want to steer clear of any who do. There are several breeders right on this forum. Sure you can buy cheap, but you may be getting a sickly, wild caught animal. Also be relaistic about the costs of cham keeping. Again, chameleonnews has an article on that very subject.

So keep asking questions, search thru previous posts and check out the suggested links

lele
an additional site

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she is on the loose!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

I too would have to agree with the above posts. Veild chameleons and pygmies are absolute OPPOSITES in every aspect of husbandry!

Pygmies do not make good chameleons at all! They are all wild caguth, loaded with parasites, ans stress easily. They need dense foliage to hide in and plenty of twigs to climb around on. They are also hard to treat for any health problems they have. With a lizard of that size it is hard to give the proper dosage of medication. Even expret vets will struggle with delivering the proper amount of medicine to such a small lizard.

Veild chameleons on the other hand usually make good captives, for CHAMELEONS! They still stress easily and do not tolerate handling. Many veilds are large and easy to feed due to their omniverous diet. They still need tons of little specifics in there husbandry.

I myself have purchased animals from reptile depot. They are GREAT to work with. Very honest and keep there animals in very nice, natural cages. I purchased my first panther chameleon from them. Nice little Nosy be dude. Had to sell him unfortunately, but nevertheless he ate 1 day after being in his cage.

Do your research and decide if you really want these 2 species. They are both interesting animals and have the potential to be interesting specimens to observe. I would have to reccomend that you email Nick Mole of First Choice Reptiles. He is constanly importing pygmy chameleons and know what he is doing. His link is below.

Good luck!
Click here to collect your prize!!!!! Jk

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eric

Beardiedude:
VERY INTERESTING that you chose to name you post as you did, I would pose this same question to YOU!!!
Look, you've obviously NEVER kept these types of chameleons- why do you INSIST on posting about something that you have ZERO ZIP ZILCH NADA first hand experience with?
Please, we ALL know where to look for websites for research. Please, if you are NOT the author of these websites, don't weild them as weapons to somehow prove how knowledgeable you are.
I've stated this before, I will state this again:
PLEASE DO NOT NOT *NOT* POST ADVICE ON CHAMELEONS YOU HAVE NO FIRST HAND *REAL* EXPERIENCE WITH.
It gets annoying having to re-post the same idea, but I will continue to do so, if for nothing than to remind those unknowing new chameleon owners who might see you as some chameleon expert.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I would agree that a veild is a better choice.
As for where to buy one from I would look around before buying from Depot.

Same, even though I couldn't buy from them. Even the word "Depot" in a business name that deals in Animals scares me. Not to 'bash' them at all, but there are a few reputable breeders that I would put my trust into. Remember to check the Board of Inquiry on anyone/business you are deciding on.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

Yes, please go to chameleonnews.com for more info on pygmies.

I would have to disagree with some mentioned items. Yes, pygmies shouldn’t be your first cham but R. brevicaudatus IMO is a very hardy pygmy chameleon and I also think they are the equivalent to veileds in regards to your first pygmy chameleon. So if you’ve successfully kept true chams and wanted to round things out by acquiring pygmies - then brevs (or temporalis) would be a good choice. Brevs also seem to be very prolific once they’re settled in and are happy. My smaller breeding group (1.3) has produced well over 75 babies in the past 9 months.

“Pygmies do not make good chameleons at all!”

beardiedue … have you ever owned a pygmy chameleon?

-roo

I just purchased a pair of Rhampolean Brevicaudatus from WildEye Reptiles. they are so cute. My herp-hating husband calls them "the pigs" and is fascinated by them. I set-up my cage and habitat by foloowing Roo's detailed article in chameleon e-zine. I cannot tell you how difficult they are to keep, as I have only had them for 2 weeks. But...so far, so good. We named them Frick and Frack. Diane

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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago

I have always heard about 2 years, have you found this to be true?
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she is on the loose!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

I cant be certain, I've got adult WC (at least a year old judging by the size) and have had them over a year now. Time will tell with the CB brevs I've kept for myself. I'm sticking with the 2-3 year guess for now. CB brevs may live longer though depending on the husbandry.

-roo

Oh good, I'm glad you posted. If you were referring to my post about the difficulty with pygmies, I hope I didn't make it out to be an impossible feat. They are FARRRR from Advanced as Eric described.

Pygmies are a fantastic chameleon to own. I just see someone getting more out of a veiled as their first chameleon, more troubles maybe, but more knowledge gained yes. A veiled could easily be more difficult to keep if your pygmies don't have trouble with the environment you provide. And it sounds like your articles are doing wonders for keepers. I have been meaning to getting around to changing their habitat and incorporating some of your suggestions. I just need to wait for a larger tank to come into my possession.

BTW, 75 babies in 9 months? Thats awesome. Feel free to toss some around up here. I'd love to get some CBBs.

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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

No you were correct (IMO) on pretty much everything you said. I really only disagree with the “hardy” comment. I think they are pretty tough chams. I’ve had the least problems with brevs out of the 6 species of leaf chams I keep and I have more brevs then anything else. They do produce a small clutch when compared to true chams but they tend to drop clutches one after another – so those eggs add up (and so don’t the babies). And yes, a veiled/panther would be the best choice for a first chameleon.

I really would love to send some to Canada at some point. The paperwork involved for something as simple as a CB brev seems like a challenge though. 75 is from one breeding group, by May 06 I should have around 160 total hatched from both groups – and THAT is a $hitload of brevs.

-roo

Hmm, I said they were 'Hardly Hardy'.

Roo! Send me your Brevs! I'll take your $hitload gladly. They'll have a nice condo with plenty of pothos. I'm just an hour north of the NY Niagara Falls border.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

You never know where one might tutn up. When I was getting ready to move Darwin into a new 50 gal as he was growing I decided to look on ebay. I narrowed it down to my area and I actually got a 75gal tank, nice black iron stand and a brand new 4' striplight - you ready? $65!!!!!!!!!!!! Some guy in Massachusetts was the only other bidder and he had a farther drive so I figured he might give up. They startred it at $25. It was a little over an hour drive to get it. They were seeling it cheap b/c it didn't hold water. What a find! I really never expected to even find a smaller one! So you never know - and it costs nothing to search
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she is on the loose!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Thats awesome. I'd love to have some pigmies in a tank that large. Using 10gals now. Something like that would really let you play around with the set up and planting.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS