Reptile & Amphibian Forums

JUST WANTED TO SAY HI TO EVERYONE... BEEN READING SOME OF THE FORMER POSTINGS AND GOT SOME GOOD INFO. IM NOT NEW TO REPTILES, BUT KINDA NEW TO GATORS, IVE HAD MINE FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS NOW AND HES JUST OVER 2 FEET. HE EATS JUST ABOUT ANYTHING I GIVE HIM, AND HES BEEN SEEN EATING THINGS SUCH AS GRAPES AND WATERMELON (FOOD FOR THE REDFOOT TORTOISE THAT IS HOUSED IN THE SAME ENCLOSURE) I FEED HIM A DIET OF RAW CHICKEN, BEEF, FEEDER FISH OF VARIOUS TYPESAND HE FEEDS VORACIOUSLY ON ALL OF THEM. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD BE FEEDING HIM TO MAKE SURE HIS DIET IS NUTRITIONALLY COMPLETE? AND ALSO, IS IT SAFE TO FEED HIM SALTWATER FISH. BECAUSE I GO FISHING FREQUENTLY AND I COME HOME WITH LEFTOVER KILLIES ALL THE TIME, AND I WAS OUT NETTING BAITFISH YESTERDAY AND CAUGHT OVER 200 BABY MACKEREL, ABOUT 3" TO 5" ARE THEY A SUITABLE FOOD FOR HIM AS WELL?
ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, AND IM SURE ILL HAVE MORE QUESTIONS IN THE FUTURE.
VICTOR

If he is a baby I would not suggest feeding him beef. It's a very tough and fatty meat that would be more suited for a larger (like 3 ft plus) gator. Chicken parts and organs are good, but should not comprise the bulk of his diet. Saltwater fish and organisms (squid, eel, oyster, crab, octopus, mussell) are all just fine, but again, not to make up the majority of the diet. Just a small percentage. I would suggest that rat pinkies, (or fuzzies and gradually larger rodents as he grows) and whole fish (guts left in) make up the bulk of his diet. For a terrific and affordable diet suppliment you can get "trout chow" from your local feed stores. It is a boyant fish food kibble that floats on the surface of the water and is specifically designed for carnivorous fish (so thus would be suitable for a carnivorous aquatic reptile). The 1/4 inch kibble is the best and is a size that a baby can grow with. Anything smaller the babies will outgrow in just a few months. Hope this helps.

>>JUST WANTED TO SAY HI TO EVERYONE... BEEN READING SOME OF THE FORMER POSTINGS AND GOT SOME GOOD INFO. IM NOT NEW TO REPTILES, BUT KINDA NEW TO GATORS, IVE HAD MINE FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS NOW AND HES JUST OVER 2 FEET. HE EATS JUST ABOUT ANYTHING I GIVE HIM, AND HES BEEN SEEN EATING THINGS SUCH AS GRAPES AND WATERMELON (FOOD FOR THE REDFOOT TORTOISE THAT IS HOUSED IN THE SAME ENCLOSURE) I FEED HIM A DIET OF RAW CHICKEN, BEEF, FEEDER FISH OF VARIOUS TYPESAND HE FEEDS VORACIOUSLY ON ALL OF THEM. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD BE FEEDING HIM TO MAKE SURE HIS DIET IS NUTRITIONALLY COMPLETE? AND ALSO, IS IT SAFE TO FEED HIM SALTWATER FISH. BECAUSE I GO FISHING FREQUENTLY AND I COME HOME WITH LEFTOVER KILLIES ALL THE TIME, AND I WAS OUT NETTING BAITFISH YESTERDAY AND CAUGHT OVER 200 BABY MACKEREL, ABOUT 3" TO 5" ARE THEY A SUITABLE FOOD FOR HIM AS WELL?
>>ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, AND IM SURE ILL HAVE MORE QUESTIONS IN THE FUTURE.
>>VICTOR
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I've been trying to find more information on this. I know that Buris Mills makes food specifically for alligators but I can run up to the store and pick up a bag of AquaMax (trout/game fish chow) as needed. I would like to use it as an occasional, easy food source for group of 1-2 year old American Alligators. They are fed primarily on pinkies. It makes perfect sense but my vet would like to see some support for the use of trout chow with crocodilians.
I hope someone can help with this. Thanks

"...For a terrific and affordable diet suppliment you can get "trout chow" from your local feed stores. It is a boyant fish food kibble that floats on the surface of the water and is specifically designed for carnivorous fish (so thus would be suitable for a carnivorous aquatic reptile). The 1/4 inch kibble is the best and is a size that a baby can grow with. Anything smaller the babies will outgrow in just a few months..."

The trout chows that I am familiar with are too low in protein to be used as a regular feed. Look for a minimum of 45% in the food that you choose. A good suggestion would be to look at the Burris site for the nutritional information on alligator chows and then research the chow that you are considering as see how it measures up.

Bill

The trout chows are actually guaranteed to contain 35% protein. While this is still very high, I always advise people to use this only as a "suppliment" and not as a main staple. To use whole foods such as rodents and fish and any number of aquatic animals available at Asian fish markets.

>>The trout chows that I am familiar with are too low in protein to be used as a regular feed. Look for a minimum of 45% in the food that you choose. A good suggestion would be to look at the Burris site for the nutritional information on alligator chows and then research the chow that you are considering as see how it measures up.
>>
>>Bill
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I really don't know what to tell you other than that I have used it for YEARS and have only seen positive results. It is not a "main diet staple", but I believe that it very well could be as it is nutritionally balanced for carnivorous fish. Carnivorous fish, you see, would have a diet nearly identical to a juvenile or young gator,... small fish, small crustaceans, insects, worms, insect larvae, frog tadpoles, etc etc etc. So if this food is balanced for this fish diet, then by my logic it should be balanced for a young gator. But just as a precaution I always suggest that it be a supplimental part of the diet and stick to whole foods such as pinkies, insects, fish, etc.

>>I've been trying to find more information on this. I know that Buris Mills makes food specifically for alligators but I can run up to the store and pick up a bag of AquaMax (trout/game fish chow) as needed. I would like to use it as an occasional, easy food source for group of 1-2 year old American Alligators. They are fed primarily on pinkies. It makes perfect sense but my vet would like to see some support for the use of trout chow with crocodilians.
>>I hope someone can help with this. Thanks
>>
>>"...For a terrific and affordable diet suppliment you can get "trout chow" from your local feed stores. It is a boyant fish food kibble that floats on the surface of the water and is specifically designed for carnivorous fish (so thus would be suitable for a carnivorous aquatic reptile). The 1/4 inch kibble is the best and is a size that a baby can grow with. Anything smaller the babies will outgrow in just a few months..."
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

For the record and pure boredom, feeding alot of pinkie mice or rats or rabbits will not do you much good. I say this because they lack harden bones, the structure is a cartledge like base which is no good when it comes to calcium, they lack alot of detail in muscle, just a basic form, no good for nutrition. However, if you do need to fatten your lil guy up, these make perfect items. I don't chose to use beef because of all the oddities that are put into them during their life (Uncle raise cattle) and the oddities that are put into the meat during packaging. Just something I'll steer (heh) clear from. Though, you could if you want, many do. What about adding supplements to the pinkie, well that could work but I've seen crocodilian reject a supplemented covered pinkie asides from your animals eating habits, you face possible rejection, loss of supps, supps. taken off by water, plus I hear supplements lose effectivness when they are watered down, but not sure of the truth on that so injection may not be a great choice. Besides nothing beats the bone structure of a sturdy, healthy animal when it come to calcium. Im not saying dont use suplements..
A key to keeping crocodilians is feeding a variety, mix it up, as each of these guys explained.
Feed rodents as the main course one month along with other items, then switch to fish, or chow or bird, or insect, and whatknot. A key I follow when it comes to my crocs is that their is no "MAIN" diet Item and I use whole items for the most part asides from certain animals. I only state this because of feedings Ive seen people do.

"Carnivorous fish, you see, would have a diet nearly identical to a juvenile or young gator"

But fish and crocodilian have different bone structure, metabolism rate, muscle structure, blood system, blood pressure, internal tracts, and so on. But that's just me thinking at 7 am. and I'm not saying you cant use it as a mixture.. Just questioning your Statement.

On a side note Brian, I remember somewhere it stating you live in California. I'm curious to how you keep these guys? Im not sure if you're a rehabber(?) or some sort of Zooish place, but I'm interested. I like to stay updated on state laws. Also I heard Cali doesnt enforce the Grandfather clause which is another reason I ask.
Thanks,
Xain

Hey, thanks for all the valueable data. I guess I have just been doing it wrong for 30 years, lol.

>>For the record and pure boredom, feeding alot of pinkie mice or rats or rabbits will not do you much good. I say this because they lack harden bones, the structure is a cartledge like base which is no good when it comes to calcium, they lack alot of detail in muscle, just a basic form, no good for nutrition. However, if you do need to fatten your lil guy up, these make perfect items. I don't chose to use beef because of all the oddities that are put into them during their life (Uncle raise cattle) and the oddities that are put into the meat during packaging. Just something I'll steer (heh) clear from. Though, you could if you want, many do. What about adding supplements to the pinkie, well that could work but I've seen crocodilian reject a supplemented covered pinkie asides from your animals eating habits, you face possible rejection, loss of supps, supps. taken off by water, plus I hear supplements lose effectivness when they are watered down, but not sure of the truth on that so injection may not be a great choice. Besides nothing beats the bone structure of a sturdy, healthy animal when it come to calcium. Im not saying dont use suplements..
>>A key to keeping crocodilians is feeding a variety, mix it up, as each of these guys explained.
>>Feed rodents as the main course one month along with other items, then switch to fish, or chow or bird, or insect, and whatknot. A key I follow when it comes to my crocs is that their is no "MAIN" diet Item and I use whole items for the most part asides from certain animals. I only state this because of feedings Ive seen people do.
>>
>>"Carnivorous fish, you see, would have a diet nearly identical to a juvenile or young gator"
>>
>>But fish and crocodilian have different bone structure, metabolism rate, muscle structure, blood system, blood pressure, internal tracts, and so on. But that's just me thinking at 7 am. and I'm not saying you cant use it as a mixture.. Just questioning your Statement.
>>
>>On a side note Brian, I remember somewhere it stating you live in California. I'm curious to how you keep these guys? Im not sure if you're a rehabber(?) or some sort of Zooish place, but I'm interested. I like to stay updated on state laws. Also I heard Cali doesnt enforce the Grandfather clause which is another reason I ask.
>>Thanks,
>>Xain
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

Or not answer the nicely put questions..
Not to mention the pinkie information was for you, he wanted to know about feeding, I figured I'd let him know the experieces I've seen when it comes to that. But hey, you've been doing it for 30 yrs. But then again, what a person learns in 30 yrs is a whole variety matter.
Either way, Please inform me on your status of keeping crocs in Cali. I've yet a response from the Wildlife Protection Division of Cali Fish and Game. And I like to keep updated on Crocodilian laws of different states.
Thanks again,
Xain

"Not to mention the pinkie information was for you, he wanted to know about feeding"

The Pinkie information Wasn't for you.. Sorry, my silly keyboard likes to play games with me.

For the record, pinkies are INCREDIBLY nutritious and healthy for a hatchling or young gator to eat as a staple food. I was never suggesting giving them to larger gators. But tiny little gators do not need solid bone mass. Their little systems can't break down solid bone.

Permits are required in California. So if you ever move to here you will need to get them.

>>Or not answer the nicely put questions..
>>Not to mention the pinkie information was for you, he wanted to know about feeding, I figured I'd let him know the experieces I've seen when it comes to that. But hey, you've been doing it for 30 yrs. But then again, what a person learns in 30 yrs is a whole variety matter.
>>Either way, Please inform me on your status of keeping crocs in Cali. I've yet a response from the Wildlife Protection Division of Cali Fish and Game. And I like to keep updated on Crocodilian laws of different states.
>>Thanks again,
>>Xain
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]