Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Sorry about that, 1 more time, KS has its own html tags I see.

OK this was such a great topic before, I thought I'd try it. 2 new snakes.

The one lacking black on the head is a male, the other is a female. Regular supersize,, er oh wait, Regular, Okeetee 2 options locale or phase, or Could they be {gasp} Abbotts? I know who I bought them from. So lets see what you think.

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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.1 MIA
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
Degus
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

First, the males head, saddles do get wider as they go back, but he would not stay in a nice little coil for me. I call him a partial hypo! OK, just kidding

Next a close up of the females back, I bit bright and washed due to the flash, I could adjust it, but I wanted to leave it as the camera took it.

-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.1 MIA
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
Degus
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

>>Sorry about that, 1 more time, KS has its own html tags I see.
>>
>>OK this was such a great topic before, I thought I'd try it. 2 new snakes.
>>
>>The one lacking black on the head is a male, the other is a female. Regular supersize,, er oh wait, Regular, Okeetee 2 options locale or phase, or Could they be {gasp} Abbotts? I know who I bought them from. So lets see what you think.
>>
>>
>>

Mix?
Nope
as for normal or okeetee you can not tell by looking.
Do they have nice colors and borders at a young age?
Yes, they do.
Do they look like they could grow up to look like nice okeetees?
Yes, they do.
Do they look like they could grow up to look like nice normals?
Yes, they do.
Do they look like possible Abbott's?
Never seen Abbott's line okeetees that young.
No idea.

If you bought them from a reputable dealer and they said they were okeetee.
You have okeetees.
If you bought them, from anyone, as normals.
You have normals.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

tag
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.1 MIA
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
Degus
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

Those are some very nice looking snakes. Although, I do not believe they are abbots. I could be wrong, as I have never owned one, but all the pictures that I have seen of abbots have huge boarders. Yours have very nice looking black boearders, but not huge. I know there are degrees of every phase 9from poor to excellent), so Are there abbots that have smaller boarders? I don't know.
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**********Misty**********
I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once!

Hmmmm...those are clearly Abbott's. Unless you know who you bought them from, you wont be able to tell 100% whos line it is.

Also, its an okeetee "phase". Though okeetees are considered to have some of the boldest and brightest patterns, some okeetees caught at the hunting club are butt ugly, hence the "phase" mentioned in an earlier thread. That male isn't a hypo, though the head pattern has hypo characteristics.

Offspring should be interesting though. If its a genetically passed trait you might be able to, with time, selectively breed that trait to decrease the black eventually yielding a hypomelanistic okeetee/Abbott's. It wouldn't be an okeetee "phase", but of okeetee lineage.

Nice snakes though. Hope you wind up with some babies soon.

I'm new to corns, not herps. a hypo abbott would be like a black albino rat. Although I did follow your logic.

Is someone yanking the newbies chain?
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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

I'm still pretty new at this myself, but I'm beginning to think that Okeetee, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not disputing that if you buy from a reputable breeder, if they say it is Okeetee, locality or 'lookeetee,' you can take it to the bank. As to just any snake marked 'Okeetee' on someone's table...well, I've seen some really strange looking okeetees, as well as some very normal anery 'ghosts.'

But part of it, I think comes down to just how individual people perceive color. Some folks can determine between very close shades of color, and some can't. To my husband turquoise or teal or aqua are all "green."

How wide a black border constitutes Okeetee? Some folks will insist on more than others. What shade should the colors be? I doubt that there will ever be a complete consensis. But I have seen some photos of Okeetees that, were I to buy one, would be the standard to be met.

Leslie

Hello, of course I know where I bought them. But that has no information for me on what they are. I wish it did.

Before the other debate on normal or okeetee. I thought okeetee for sure. I've never seen an abbott in person. But I plan to buy a trio from Don S. this spring. Give them all a year to grow then speculate.

I still consider them okeetees, but I learned about phase vs locale. I would not call them locale since I did not catch them in jasper, or other locale definitions, nor can I verify their lineage to snakes from that area. but their color is very very good. I stand by okeetee phase.

I love these forums, I like to joke a bit, but I really do use it to gain information.

As for incensedpython's post. I laughed at first, then it had me thinking. Although my schooling taught me modification in breeding or selective breeding, is not the same as a true genetic morph. I bred capped rats back in the early 1970's after reading a book on Mendels rules "basic genetics". (He also cheated lol) Back then we called it modification. Less hood, less hood less hood ect ect, finally caps. But litters were never 100% caps. Either multiple alleles or incomplete dominace? I'm not sure. But not a true genetic morph. At least the way I understand it. Much like lightening bearded dragons.

Thanks for your posts.

>>Sorry about that, 1 more time, KS has its own html tags I see.
>>
>>OK this was such a great topic before, I thought I'd try it. 2 new snakes.
>>
>>The one lacking black on the head is a male, the other is a female. Regular supersize,, er oh wait, Regular, Okeetee 2 options locale or phase, or Could they be {gasp} Abbotts? I know who I bought them from. So lets see what you think.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)
>>
>>AOL IM Mettzilla
>>I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS
>>
>>1.3 Bearded Dragons
>>6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
>>1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.1 MIA
>>1 baby creamcycle 0.1
>>Degus
>>2.0 Dogs,
>>0.2 Cats,,
>>0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
>>1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
>>-----
>>tom
>>
>>
>>www.herpzilla.com
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

they look like okeetees to me.possible Abbotts. jeff