Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are pothos ok for veiled Chameleon Enclosures?? I decided against the pigmy chams since they were WC. Also, we are using a smaller enclosure now since he is a baby. A baby turquoise velied male!!! Anyway what would everyone suggest for a full grown enclosure size. We are going to make one. I was thinking 3.5 x 2.5 x 2.5. Is that a good size?? We got a medium screen one for now so we can have time to make a good sturdy attractive enclosure!! I will let everyone know how I like the breeder I chose!! Thanks for all the advice!!

Yeah as a matter of fact pothos are GREAT for veilds because they can eat them as a snack! Make sure to properly wash the potho to rid it of deadly pesticides. Change the soil to get rid of perilite and pesticides in the soil. Then it should work brillianty in your cage!

As for the cage, i think that should be fine, but remember to get the biggest cage you can afford!
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eric

Thanks eric! Ok so what other plants are safe, and what plants are toxic?

pothos, schefflera, and ficus are the most popular

The biggest change you can afford is a good rule of thumb. The usual for an adult is 4'x2'x2'. If you are already planning to make the cage 3.5' I would recommend going up to 4'. Chams only use the top 1/3 of their cage most of the time.

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1.0 Sunburst Veiled Chameleon -- Dexter
11 months

Did you know that ALL of these plants are listed as toxic plants? True. Either their sap can cause dermitis, mouth iritations, and irritate eyes, or the high silica content on at least a couple of these plants have been know to cause gastritis and mild to severe mouth and eye irritation.
It does vary from plant to plant, not just species. Same with chameleons. Some can be very sensitive to these plants.
My point- Use these plants with caution. If your chameleon is fine, then develops symptoms, do not discount the plants, even if they're on the safe list.
Just some food for thought.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Unless we have cultivated it for food purposes, it's probably toxic in some sort. Seriously. Nearly every plant is toxic or poisonous in some way.

I can almost assure you that the plants chameleons live on in the wild are not on the safe plant list.

I still use the old standbys, as they're cheap and available. Josh Mease sent me a link to http://out-of-africa-plants.com/
They carry many plants which chameleons prefer. Many species tend to be found on particular species of plants (Josh Mease's personal experiences over there). He said to let the people know what kind of chameleon I have, and they might be able to find the preferred plant. Might not be on the safe plant list though - hehe.

When I set up my greenhouse/animal room in my new home, I'm going to order from these folks. How cool would that be to have authentic setups?

That said, I've used many of the really nasty, poisonous plants on the list with no problems (before I othered to read the list!)

See that large leafed plant? Sheffelera actinoflora - our friendly dwarf sheffelera's evil cousin. Supposed to make birds puke if they eat it. It was my favorite plant for several years.
Also used rubber plants - had some veields take bites out of them, to no illeffect. Poisonous plants tend to taste like poison. The toxins are there not to kill the browser, but to prevent them from eating the plant.

Still, I use the safe plants now, ESPECIALLY with veileds and melleri. Veields eat, Melleri like to chew their branches (dont' ask why..)

When I started posting on the chameleon forum, the first thing I thought was WOW-these people are using ALL of the wrong plants! LOL But...since you have all been using them for long periods of time without ill effect I realized that maybe some of the plant lists need to be modified. Also, since many chameleons do not eat plant material, some potentially "toxic" plants are probably fine as well. Most of you keep Veiled's and since they DO eat plant matter and do fine I think your experiences and successes speak for themselves. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago

Diane said..."Also, since many chameleons do not eat plant material, some potentially "toxic" plants are probably fine as well"...but if the insects nibble on the leaves of a toxic plant and then the chameleon eats the insect, what will happen?

Eric said..."Unless we have cultivated it for food purposes, it's probably toxic in some sort."...we would think this to be true, but even plants and some of their parts that we cultivate to eat are poisonous. Green potatoes are not good for us, pips/seeds of cherry, apple, pear, apricot etc. contain toxins.

Eric said..."I can almost assure you that the plants chameleons live on in the wild are not on the safe plant list" that's probably quite true, but there might also be some "mechanism" that prevents them all from dying or from eating them or insects that feed on them.

Eric said..."See that large leafed plant? Sheffelera actinoflora - our friendly dwarf sheffelera's evil cousin. Supposed to make birds puke if they eat it. It was my favorite plant for several years"...chocolate and onions are okay for humans but not for dogs, for example...so I think that what we have to realize is that whatever list we look on for non-toxic plants, unless its specific to one species, could contain plants that don't belong there.

Eric said..."Poisonous plants tend to taste like poison. The toxins are there not to kill the browser, but to prevent them from eating the plant"...wile this may be true for some plants then, for example, why do people die/get sick from eating poison mushrooms?

Some animals may only ingest a little bit of a plant, which serves as a test. It the animal doesn't get sick or die, then it could eat more of it the next time....but I'm not sure how many animals have that ability.

This site has some points that should be of interest in this discussion... http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Plantoxins.htm

And another site....
http://www.anapsid.org/resources/plants.html

Eric said..."Poisonous plants tend to taste like poison. The toxins are there not to kill the browser, but to prevent them from eating the plant"...wile this may be true for some plants then, for example, why do people die/get sick from eating poison mushrooms

>>>>>>>>>..
Simple.
Mushrooms ain't plants. hehe.

Mosty plants are toxic to some degree. Which is why we play it safe, and use mostly non-toxic (or mildly toxic) plants.

I do believe it is a good way to be safe. I also do believe that it is NOT "bad" to use some toxic plants, especially if they're native to the animal's habitat.

The lists of "safe plants" are primarily important for herbivorous reptiles; iguanas and tortoises. It's important for chameleons, as they spend time in trees, and occationally browse. Especially veileds.

You must use logic and reason in the matter.

Case in point:
Veiled chameleons, especially big males, are found predominantly on big Acacia trees in their native habitat.
Acacia is the SECOND plant on the "toxic plant" list.

Eric said..."Mushrooms ain't plants. hehe"....oops! But they are still a cultivated food product!

Eric said..."I do believe it is a good way to be safe. I also do believe that it is NOT "bad" to use some toxic plants, especially if they're native to the animal's habitat"...I agree.

Eric said..."Case in point:
Veiled chameleons, especially big males, are found predominantly on big Acacia trees in their native habitat.
Acacia is the SECOND plant on the "toxic plant" list"...according to what I read, there are seventeen or more kinds of acacias in Yemen...some of which are used in medicines...I wonder which ones the veileds are sitting on?

I'll disagree. 3.5' is Plenty height for the chameleons needs in most climates. Even less would work as well. Its just recommend that you raise the cage as high as possible off the ground.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS