Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Let's start with something from the Mazatzal Mts in central Az--a Night Lizard. Ya gotta work to see these, but they are way cool.

Next, Night Lizard nemesis, a Sonoran Lyre Snake.

One of my favorite snakes, Western Ground Snakes...real variable.

One of the weirdest residents of the boulder fields, the Az amblypigid, Paraphrynus mexicanus. This one has just moulted and will turn black in a day or so as it hardens. Also called tailless whipscorpion. Crummy name.

The Narro-Headed Garter from the streams along the Mogollon Rim.

(That's supposed to be Narrow-Headed Garter in the previous post) Here's Santa Cruz County in the rainy season, Santa Rita Mts in back. Nothing like it.

The Black King that crawled between my legs while I was collecting bugs at a light by the side of the road.

I guess if you don't ahve any trees, you make do.

The waterfall the frog was above--Box Canyon, Santa Rita Mts.

Saddled Leaf-Nosed Snake. A common late-summer find.

Texas Horned Lizard

Round-Tailed Horned Lizard

Short-Horned Lizard, a high-elevation species.

Lucy last September at eight weeks.

Hello KW,

please fill me in on the "black Kingsnake?" It is not listed as an Arizona Species. Is it a rare and welcomed visitor from Mexico? It is superb. Thanks for any info forthcoming.....

a color phase of the Common King which currently has its own supspecific epithet, Lampropeltis getulus nigritis. The splitters are rampant these days, and they may succeed in elevating it to species status, but I still say it's a population morph. Some start life totally black and stay that way, others start out looking like the so-called "Desert Kingsnake" phase, and lose most or all of their yellow as they age. Nigritis kings are widely bred in captivity and available most of the time--cb animals are usually beautiful jet black. I call them the poor man's Indigo. I've owned them and bred them--they are great snakes and economical. Breeders in the West sell them as low as ten dollars for a hatchling (they are less easy to sell in the West, for some reason). Back East, breeders usually charge more.

Very informative, thank you.

Great pictures of s0me neat animals.

I have a question about the nigritus though. I thought all the ones in Santa Cruz and some in Pima Co., were intergrades. Where did you get this one? My guess would be near the border. Send e-mail if you want. Thanks.

One of my main interests
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Just looking, clicking, curious, studying, laughing, having fun, meeting cool folks, sharing. Live your dream, relax, smile, don't worry so much, love life. See ya there...TC.

Terry,

There are those who don't consider the snakes in the Santa cruz river valley to be nigrita but only intergrades at best, simply because they think there is too much yellow in the pattern of juvenils and some adults. But these people are confused by the captive bred animals they have seen which have been selected for for many generations. Not only where the blackest wild animals selected but the blackest offspring are selected for future breeders. Throughout their range in Sonora where all agree it is pure in form one still finds just as many animals with lots of yellow splendida pattern as babies and many retain a lot of yellow into adulthood. As far as I am concerned the snakes from at least Green Valley south qualify as nigrita. Sure there is intergradation at the edges (on the north end of the Sasabe Rd. one can find hatchlings that when held in the light one can barely make out a "yumensis" pattern)Who knows what DNA would tell us. Perhaps nigrita is not even a valid sub, just a splendida that tends towards melanism in the S.W. portion of it's range.

Rich,

Thanks for the comments. I think getulus might be one of those species that is so widespread that it is difficult to determine where ssps. begin and end, and also, might even look tempting to some to split into more than one species. What I have been looking at for a couple years now, is that there is nigritus influence all through the Santa Cruz Valley, as you said, or that it is nigritus itself with some splendida influence.

I have a speciman right now that came from G.V. that is very dark, head mostly black, ventrum mostly black with light bands crossing all the way across, and light bands on back only one scale wide with some black flecking even in the light scales. It's a beauty. I'm trying to find a female to match with it because I like this intergrade so much, or whatever we'll call it.

I was happily surprised by your comments about the Mexican specimans you're familiar with. I have been wondering seriously myself if there really was a "nigritus" form which was pure black, or, in other words, a melanistic getulus from the S.W. I believe slendida tends towards melanism in the S.W., but doubt I will ever find a truly melanistic speciman. What I hope to breed I don't want to be entirely black, however. I really like the nearly all black morph with a slight pattern and some yellowish highlights.

Very cool snakes. Smile.

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Just looking, clicking, curious, studying, laughing, having fun, meeting cool folks, sharing. Live your dream, relax, smile, don't worry so much, love life. See ya there...TC.

I'm trying to pull some information from my dim and distant past now, but it seems to me that the "real" nigritis came from Durango, Mexico. They were jet black as babies and of course grew into jet black adults. A guy named Ed Minor had these back in the late '70s and early '80s. That was when they were rare (remember when pueblans were rare?). The pitch was that as you go north the population had a tendency to get more speckled, so possibly an intergrade. But like all intergrades, the babies may show traits from one side or the other or any combination available from the gene pool. The nigritis in that beautiful photo posted by kw53 looks just like the ones we used to call "Durango". Maybe someone didn't want to feed a bunch of babies and let a batch go. Maybe it's just showing the black traits. Whatever the snake is, it's one heck of a find!
Thanks for posting kw53.
--Michael-

L. g. nigritis may well be a population of L. g. splendida that tends towards melanism. But if this tendency is confined within a geographic area where all or even most individuals exhibit this tendency, then this population should be considered a valid subspecies regardless of DNA makeup. If on the other hand, the black phase is sporadically distributed and may turn up in any splendida population, then it does not deserve subspecific recognition. Think of the black phase of the whipsnake Masticophis flagellum and the black and white phase of the long nosed snake Rhinocheilus lecontei. These color phases are not considered valid subspecies because they can turn up in any number of populations that contain mostly animals with more typical coloration.

Just to add to the previous comments, the latest western field guide from Stebbins does list this (Lampropeltis getula nigrita) as a subspecies (in question as indicated by KW53) and includes a range, also the link will provide below will show you an online range map if you are interested in pursuing one, looks like extreme south central and southeastern AZ. >
http://www.reptilesofaz.com/h-l-g-nigrita.html

Brad

P.S. Great posts KW53, thanks!!!

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Tim

Those are all awesome.. especially the black king.. I will be going down SE soon and would love to find a black king.. and of course a triapsis..