Reptile & Amphibian Forums

NO names are used in this post, just a continuing sour experience that’s giving me more heart ache than ever expected.

Customer Service is a big deal in my book but I continue to have a issue with a breeder who is well known and it seems as if the situation is making no progress.

Situation: Waiting for the weather back east to warm up before the seller can ship to AZ. I have no issues waiting for the temps but my previous suggestions of keeping in touch with the buyer, posting your local temps, and having a customer service rep or someone who’s willing to answer my questions were all ignored.
My new problem is I asked if I can get info on my purchase. I asked if they set aside my order or just waited to select what I bought before shipping. Thank goodness they set my order aside (JAN 1st)! But I asked for pictures, genetic info, and weights to see progress and ensure I get what is "waiting for me". The seller responded that all genetics would be provided once the animal is shipped. Based off their reply they might be confused so I tried to explain the request again to clarify my intentions but never got a response.

What would you do?

Thanks
Nate
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

here's my thoughts. if you expect/want better service, cancel your order get a refund. then really shop for a breeder that will give you the service you want. in the end you will be happier. this just doesn't apply to herps, sometimes excellent service will cost you more.

vaughn

Unless you have some connection to this specific animal, I'd try to get my money returned and the order canceled. From what I'm reading, you can't have that much connection to this animal because the seller isn't giving you information on this specific animal. Of course, I'm not as big a fan of morphs as some people are, so it's harder for me to gauge how badly you might want this guy.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Customer service shouldn't cost you more...there are just good breeders and dumb ones. Dumb because any breeder should know that Balls are addictive and no one buys just one. treat your customer like family bend over backwards...it deosn't cost you a thing, ut it does tend to get life customers who buy again and again it's that simple. If you are being stroked right you bought from a dumb breeder. We are sold out but I can fully endorse Morph King, Ralph Davis and Eric Sandoval. I have personally dealt with them all and they all were very great about their service, have followed up on how the snakes are doing...I would buy there anytime. Sorry you got one of teh dumb ones. Hope to see you in the future with us or any of the many other fine operations out there who know customer service isn't just a smart business scheme it is also how you should always treat your fellow man.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

I too can recommend RDR as a great seller. I've only bought one snake from him and got some very good customer service and it was on a cheap het pied male. In fact I called him on a sunday when he was out having a good time and he talked to me for almost 3 hrs even after he knew I was only spending $450. Another breeder I've worked with alot is Gulf Coast Reptiles. They are great people to work with and will spend the time with you that you deserve. They also have some of the best BP's around. There is no sales department it is just Chris and Sheila. The only downfall to that is it is sometimes hard to get them on the first call but if you leave a message they call back very very quickly. I have bought multiple animals from them spending thousands there and plan on buying more. You cannot go wrong with an animal from them. When you buy from the best you get the best.
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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Yeah man,

I'm going through the same thing right now. I'm working with a big breeder and the guy who runs the Sales Department is giving me alot of grief. I placed my order in January, and I have to practically wrestle somebody to the ground to get these guys to reply to me. I simply wanted to know two things:

If I could recieve documentation on genetics, and if I could recieve an "estimate or guess" on when I would get my animals (Its been over a month, no updates on weather or anything).

I wrote them an email on 4 FEB 2006 asking that they send me the info I requested. NO REPLY...Today (26 FEB 2006) I sent them an email...and I stated I "expect a reply". THIS IS WHAT THEY SENT ME:

SINCE WE HAVE NOT MASTERED THE ART OF PRERECOGNITION AND WE ARE UNABLE TO PREDICT THE FUTURE WE ARE UNABLE TO OFFER ESTIMATES OR TIME FRAMES...

At the end they also mock me by copying and stating WE "Expect A REPLY THIS TIME"

Sounds like a bunch of nice guys. Maybe we got off on the wrong foot, but I will admit, one time I had a sour note with them. After a problem with not being replied to, I wrote them an email, I was not rude, but I was very blunt. They wrote me back an email telling me to change my attitude. I felt bad, and sent an email back to them apologizing, and that I would not be "rude" again. They didnt reply to my apology.

To tell you the truth, I cant really do anything (Due to terms of sale). What good is it for me to call them and complain when they guy doing it to me is probably a manager/co-owner? My biggest shock is that this is a national reputable breeder, not some 19 year-old punk selling his boa constrictor cause it's "not cool" anymore.

There needs to be a place where people can discuss these problems and identify specific companies involved. I realize that we can't do it on kingsnake.com, but I wish there were another site where we could have these discussions. If I knew of a company doing this kind of thing, I'd not deal with them.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

there is a great site, but if I said who kingsnake mods would lock my account out, or just remove my post like it never happened... who knows, maybe someone did tell you, but you wouldnt know because kingsnake would have removed it already. Gotta love it eh.

Sounds like we are possibly dealing with the same breeder.
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

Who knows? Maybe so. But I wont reveal the name of the breeder, until I get my animals. I have hets on the way...and I dont want to get duds.

The Sales department person who you exchanged emails with sounds a lot like the person who I got an email from.

(After I requested photos, genetic info, and weights be supplied to ensure that my order really existed while I wait for the weather to warm up.)

So far I have not had my requests answered but the sales department did say, "do you honestly think we enjoy thousands of dollars in additional feed expences for animals which have sold and we no longer own? "

Hmmm, well I dont see how its such an issue to respond to emails, provide pics of whats mine?
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

The more you write about this company, the more im starting to think that we're dealing with the same people. I am also bound by terms of sale and can't back out, and the guy in the Sales Department talks down to me, and threatens me. Saying he expects all emails to be courteous, and then he blows up on me? I think it's because they have my money, and I don't have my snakes...in essence...they have me by the balls (no pun intended).

Well folks I am sorry you have gone through this. There are some out there too dumb as I stated and a few too arrogant in the level of sales they have to care if you come nback again. That's just depressing. There was great advice earlier worth ssaying again, find a breeder who has what you want and who you can get some intel on from this site community or friends, etc., to see how the folks were treated. Talk to them a lot first and exchange emails, etc., and see how fast do they reply, do they return calls, etc. I can tell you any good breeder will respond pretty fast and spend hours answering even the smallest seemingly silly questions. Again you are spending hard earned money you ought to be treated with respect, period.

When you buy from that breeder and it turns out great tell your friends, and buy there again. This business works by that word of mouth reputation. I can probably guess too who you dealt with as there are many such stories. Again I am sorry for what you are going through because it's not how you should be treated. Maybe on a future purchase follow my advice above and hook up with a breeder who makes you feel like family. They are out there, I gave you a few great ones, I know there are more.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

I'd buy from a local breeder or at a show from someone I know and see all the time there.......

hey..I do do that......

actually I have shipped animals and have waited for shipment....waited till the shipping strike was over.......

and I didn't call Norm once ar ask where they were......or care......I knew he'd send a good snake.....well........3

.......when I got them I screamed at the airport........they were that good.........
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you think????

Alright ill plug in some more details.

I bought a female 100% het albino and a Red blood python, It wasnt something cheap but a good deal as many people dont have hets especially females. This is not some starting breeder and I did my homework looking at lots of reviews which were all positive, but Im sure those who were not pleased with their service did not speak up.
Oh i do remember one person saying they had a bad experince after I had ordered but a loyal group of people to the breeder basically ripped her appart for challenging the breeder. What became a problem of service quickly turned into a name calling and unprofessional behavior splattered all over internet posts, just like school children on both sides. I wish to have none of that, which is why I am keeping names out of this and still trying to fix the problem.
As for cancelling my order, I would have done that almost a month ago if I could have! Terms of service by the seller says that they will not refund my money based on the situation and are willing to take me to court and I am under a binding contract once i ordered.

Thanks
Nate
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

Personally, I think i'd tell the guy/gal to go ahead and ship. If they use heat packs it should be no problem. I just did a deal with a guy in Mass., I'm in Mich., for a young(3 ft.) rock python. It arrived in great condition. The weather at the time on my end was mid twentys in the day and single digits at night. I know theat distance is an issue in your case, but I think if it's done right there should be no problem. JMHO.

Quig

The seller refuses to ship! In their Terms of Service they state no refunds for customers who demand shipment despite harsh conditions nor do they make any exceptions to ship when conditions are not safe at the customers request. and security of the animal.

Thanks

Nate
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

there are het females around...I had them on the table yesterday....wait...I may have been the only one........maybe you are right......?.......I sold one pair......2 other people ran up like they really wanted them asking for het girls as they expected me to say NO all males.......but I say yes.here see......they walked.....maybe they thought $600 a pair for 500 grammers was too much?..maybe they were just not really looking for hets.........LOL.........to the one guy......they'll do just fine...........

............oh......you can have a BAD experienced at / with ANY breeder..it's all bad timing or luck........don't matter who they are or think they are........weather,phones,,timing can all be bad..........

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you think????

I wish I had that oppertunity 600 for a 500g female het albino!
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

You know what?

My goal one day is to be a big breeder. One of the big shots. I love snakes, and I have had them in my life ever since I could have one. One of the industry greats once told me to treat the customer with the upmost respect. They will come back.

The truth is for many of us, once we get one snake, we get another...then another...and it goes on.

If I had somebodies money, and I couldn't ship due to weather, I would be as courteous as I could, since it's the last thing I could do. I've never be so appauled by a breeder in my life.

To tell you all the truth, in my first email that I sent to the breeder, I told them I was a college student, and that if possible, they could ship to my home address instead of school (if they ship during spring break). Ever since then...they've talked down to me like I was a child...I mean come on guys. We're all adults, I mean I'm not going to school to study basket weaving, I'm going to be a Veterinarian for god's sake. I don't like being treated like I'm an idiotic spoiled punk. I work hard to finance my schooling and my hobby.

N/P
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

Why would someone put hundreds of dollars down with ANYONE/ANY COMPANY they have never met in another state and they expressly state NO REFUNDS. Just the fact that they say no refunds, basically make sure they dont have to care what you think about the animal they send you, or when they send it. As a breeder, and a buyer, I would never make a swiss cheese deal like this for any reason. If I sold an animal, collected payment, you are going to get that animal in less than a week. If the weather was in such a state that I would not ship for more than a week, I simply would not be selling at that time. If you knew I had something you wanted, and felt so strong about it you wanted to pay for it, I would let you, but if you asked for a refund, I would absolutly give you one, as no product had ever been sent. Why would anyone expect anything less? If I was you, I would read the fine print next time and think about WHY they might have a rule such as no refunds. One other thing to watch out for when dealing with the same types of companies, is when (and I say when because something usually happens) something happens, they will only CREDIT you tword your next purchase with them, and nothing tword shipping. I had one place ship me a box of frogs, once they got to me half the box was dead, the other half might as well have been dead, and they would only credit me $100 on a $400 box of frogs... shipping on another order alone would be $60 with them........... BEWARE OF HOW THEY DEAL WITH THINGS BEFORE THEY GO BAD!!!

As an example, most people dont know that stores dont have to give you a refund on something you buy and dont like or is broken, or what ever reason. Any store can refuse to refund you any time they want... so why do they just refund you and dont ask alot of questions? Its just good business to make the people that buy from you happy when they walk out the door.

Well many people buy things from across the nation from people they hav never met relying upon others reviews to guide their purchases. I for example read alot of reviews before buying on this one breeder but now see how many positive rewiews dont always solidify a good deal for your purchase and how those who get burned dont always speak up for one reason or another. Live and learn, but my intention on bringing this up here is to get advice or meet others who have had this experince with this breeder without the name calling, rude remarks, accusations of other websites where this breeder maintains an image and a following.
Heck I even contacted the owner of the company/big breeder and he basically told me he didnt pay his employees to conduct customer service.
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

Nate,

It sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place. I feel bad for you. But I don't really know what can be done to remedy your situation.

I think it's a good idea that Kingsnake doesn't allow bad mouthing. This board would be rampant with it. Not because there are a lot of scumbags, but because there are going to be problems here and there, and some people deal with problems better than others. Some take things to extremes and some like to exaggerate their stories.

As you can see you don't always get the truth whether it be good reviews or bad reviews. Some people are afraid to say what they think and others will have a bad experience and before you know it all their friends have jumped in on the kill. And then you have to decipher who is telling the truth and who is either lying or exaggerating. Not an easy task.

I think it's a good idea to talk about problems people have in the business, and I like your attitude toward that. You don't want to let loose, you just want to be treated fairly and have some sort of normal communication throughout your whole process.

SB

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I agree, i think you are having a very good attude dispite your situation. It is very hard to just sit back and wait, and i am sorry to hear your going through this. I understand that people think that there should be a no "NO REFUNDS" term, but big breeders do have to cover themselves, b/c there are alot of scamartist buyers out there also. So the terms and conditions do go both ways. I have terms and conditions for every animal i sell both for genetics and health, and i dont beleve in shipping in extremly cold weather. I do not know where your breeder is situated but i live in Northern NE and it had been in singal digits almost all day sometimes a high of 13, any shipping malfunction could and most likely would result in death for your animals and if the breeder has a live arrival guarentee he would be at fault and would loose the money on the animal. But i am NOT saying in any way that this is an exscuse for what is happining, they should be kissing your a$$ (so to speak) b.c they should want you to feel comfortable in this situation and remain happy through the whole ordeal. I trully hope things work out for you, i have had my isses in the past also with big breeders and it can be very frustrating, in time i have worked out our differences and either recieved the animal or paperwork in two for instances, but i will be hesitant to deal with them again. Sorry for such a long post.
Good luck again.
Keep us posted.
Kim
NARC Reptiles

Thanks for all the backing in this long drawn out process that probably wont get solved until mid to late April as a weather website provided statistical info that the temps wont change in the breeders area until then, even thought they continue to sell these hets, and tell me that they usually get a couple warm day breaks in the weather to ship everything out. I gave the breeder the web address to the weather site that provided the years of temps and when they change in their area and said they should provide this info before they sell to people who don’t know where they are exactly or their weather conditions.

I also sent yet another request for pics and weights as all my other requests have either been ignored or they told me I would get my info with my snakes. I tried explaining it was a security issue to ensure that I get what is "being held aside" and not something recently hatched or from somewhere else. No response yet.

As for making my issue public, I have been telling people that I will think it over once my snakes arrive but because I only have a few emails that have slanderous comments, I lack proof that I am being ignored. (I wish my email had a way to get my sent emails back) I was even accused for being a bad buyer by the owner when i brought this all up to him in JAN. He said I asked too many repeated questions......My reply, "Well if you answer my questions then I wont ask them again"......Also when I went to discuss this further with him he said I should report all further problems to the sales department and not him and that he wasnt paying his people to conduct customer service. So when these issues start at the top its kind of hard to solve them.

Thanks

Nate
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

I honestly would send him a link to this forum and have him read what people think about his buisness techniques thus far. Let him see that you are being more then fair without using names, maybe once he sees that everyone is on your side he'll lighten up a bit. Also you can tell him youll make his name publiclly known to this forum if he dosent get his act together. Good luck again.
Kim

That is a good idea but I dont want a major name calling, argueing, ordeal all over this forum. There are two sides to every story and I am sure this breeder is going to defend his company and try and trash on me. I read this forum every day and I wouldnt want to read about someone elses soap opera (when it loses touch with the animals and the basic practices of a good business ethics, I have read some of these on other sites and often thats what they amount too). So I will wait to get my snakes and then I will bring my issues up with the breeder on that other site. If you would like I can post when I will so you can check it out for yourself.

Thanks
Nate
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1.2 Normal Bps (Ka, Khayli, Monster)
1.1 100% Het Albino (Mr Stash, Bahari)
.1 Lemon Pastel (Penenlope)
.1 Red Blood Python (Qermez)

I agree with that tactic. As an update though, on my present situation:
Last night I finally recieved a reply from the breeder (sales department). He apologized for his for his "sarcasm" and "silly" email. Thats fine and all, but, I wont treat any of my customers with silliness or sarcasm when I'm the one doing the selling. I really don't think customers are jokes. Especially when many breeders develop relationships and friendships with many of their customers, since most pleaed customers will return. I don't feel that that is a good tactic to make friends.

1.1 Ball Pythons (One gravid female)
1.0 Lavendar Albino Reticulated Python
0.1 Female Tiger Reticulated Python
1.1 Het Albino Reticulated Pythons

If the e-mail that you received represents a change in attitude at this company, then it is good news indeed. I wish you well in your studies.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Thank you very much for your support on this issue, and I also hope that this hopeful change in attitude will be permanent.