Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For Chris H. yes when I refer to the 41qt rack the tubs will slide in length wise. each shelf will have a brace that runs the length on each side. This will only give a span of 17" between braces, there should be no sagging with these shelves. For the hatchling rack, I will be using 12qt's and was planning on putting 3 tubs per shelf. I have been thinking about this and believe that unless I went with 3/4" there will be sagging. I think I will go with 2 tubs per shelf and thus only being a 23" span between braces and therefor be no sagging even with 1/4" xpvc (correct me if I'm wrong on that). I plan on building 2 hatchling racks, 1 grow-out rack (using 32qt tubs with the same design as the 41qt rack with only 1 tub per shelf), and 2 adult/41qt racks so it must be economical for me to make them or I will just build some more racks out of melamine and just save up for a hernia repair, lol. The heating for the racks will be 3" tape for the hatchling and grow-out racks and 11" for the 41qt rack. All racks controlled by helix dbs-1000 thermostats (2 racks per thermostat). Any ideas or design changes would be greatly appreciated.
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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

1/4 pvcx will sagg even if its only 17" wide....

I agree. In working with pvcx I have found that without perpendicular support the 1/4 sags. 1/2 should do the trick. the 1/2 is a little more difficult to locate. As far as weight, you can't beat this stuff. There is some sign material that is two - 1mm or 2mm sheets of pvcx sandwiching a 1/2 inch layer of styrene foam. Im not sure of the brand name. You cant glue or weld but have to attach with fasteners. It might be something to look into.

one thing i found after trying to make racks out of all possible plastics available using different assembly techniques, is that trying to make lightweight racks never give good results(the only lightweight rack that is verry sturdy are made of hollow core pvc.....good luck to find some and you would probably need to have it extruded(min order at least 3 tons). You could use 1/2 pvcx and even 3/4 and your rack would still be unstable and will end up warping with the heat(even withtout). A material that i foud perfect to make racks is 3/8 or 1/2 Seabord(textured polyethelyne that is used to make cutting board and boat furniture). That material is 10000 sturdyer than pvcx, virtually unbreakable, has a verry good tensile strenght, is UV stabilized, and USDA/FDA approved. It is has heavy has melamine, but it will last forever. Theres also Seabord lite that is at least 25% lighter and cheaper....if you can find some, that material is the best ( at least to me...lol)

Plastic is expensive, theres many different brands that make the same type of product and can varry significantly in quality....so before you buy anything, be sure to make some testing, request some samples and ask has many questions has you can. Even tough, most of the time you will ask for a specific brand and they will ship you another and say: "yeah but its the same material...."

The material you mentioned is Ultra Plus. They no longer make the product with 2 mm skins, although it was still on their website the last time I checked. Now the only option is 1mm Sintra skins.

The 1/2" Ultra Plus is rigid enough for a rack and extremely light. I have some specs on it somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up. The 1/2" is lighter than 1/4" expanded PVC.

But the styrene core does come with it's own set up problems.

First, the styrene itself is highly flamable, even though the Sintra coating is not. This may or may not be a problem. Note that styrene is used inside of reptile cages all of the time. But I'm not sure I'd want to have flexwatt in direct contact with it, at least how I see it used in some racks.

Also, the stuff is so light that it may be TOO light. I could easily see a rack topple over if the top box was pulled most of the way out.

One other issue with UP is that it cannot be thermoformed or joined like other plastics.

If I were to build a cage or rack from UP I would use a combination of PVC corner angle (solvent welded to the Sintra skins), latex based Liquid Nails, and rivets.

I'll look up the specs I have on Ultra Plus. I'd like to hear more about how you specifically joined it. I tried polyurethane based glue but the styrene core broke down. I should have figured that.

FYI for those of you interested:

1/4" Expanded PVC varies between 27 to 30 lbs. per sheet, depending upon brand.

1/2" Expanded PVC varies quite a bit more, anywhere from 42 to 65 lbs. per sheet.

1/2" Ultra Plus weighs about 14 lbs. per sheet, if I remember correctly.

3/4" plywood weighs about 65 lbs. per sheet. (Bighurt & others, correct me on this if I'm wrong...)

A few comments:

1/2" PVCX is expensive. If weight is a primary concern for a project, don't rush out and buy any old 1/2" PVCX. You might be disapointed by how much it weighs, as it can approach the weight of 3/4" plywood.

Some of the solid plastics, like HDPE, are even heavier and often weigh more than 3/4" plywood. No surprise that so many are upset with how much plastic cages weigh.

I'll try to weight a hollow core door later. I'll also try to look up the weights of melamine and MDF.

What do you want me to do throw a sheet on the bathroom scale. LOL the wife would love that! Couldn't resist but if I had to guess 65pds is pretty close, for "Ply"
Jeremy
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow Red Tailed Boas -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino Red Tailed Boa -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic Red Tailed Boas
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino Red Tailed Boas
0.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boa
0.1 Anerthrystic Red Tailed Boa
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

I thought maybe you'd know off the top of your head. I wouldn't dare get on a scale right now, I don't really want to know how much weight I put on this winter, LOL.

Europly is about 72 lbs. per 3/4" sheet and it is one of the heavier plywoods. So I'm pretty sure 65 lbs. is about right.

I think MDF is 94 lbs. and melamine is about 85 lbs., but I could not confirm that online.

This is for ball pythons, right? I think you can make 1/4" Sintra work. 1/2" PVCX is more than twice the cost of 1/4" and usually more than twice the weight, depending on brand.

Ball pythons are not the best escape artists and I believe you can control the sagging.

I would support each joint with solvent welded corner angle. This offers a lot of support and strengthens the joint, important if you don't have a lot of experience solvent welding PVC.

Also, I would build your hatchling racks with the 12 qt. tubs and just use the same design for the 32 qt. tubs since they are the same height. You could have one, 32 qt. tub slid in width-wise and two, 12 qt. tubs slid in lengthwise on each level.

Include a solid back and have the back of each shelf solvent welding with PVC angle to the back. This way you only have to worry about sagging in the front, which should not be too much of an issue in a rack only 17" deep or so.

I have no doubt I could build an escape-proof rack from 1/4" PVCX and that it would stay escape proof over time.

Personally, I would go with melamine before forking over the $$ for 1/2" PVCX. Not that 1/2" PVCX isn't a great material, it's just that I'm not sure it's cost is a worthwhile tradeoff for the DIY herper.

Or, you could use 1/2" Ultra Plus like I mentioned in another post in this thread. I might still use 1/4" PVCX for the sides and back, however. Primarly to give a bit of weight and some structure for holding rivets.

In fact, 1/4" PVCX for the sides and back and 1/2" Ultra Plus for the shelves might be a nice setup. My main concern would be having heat tape in direct contact with the Ultra Plus.

this is the website that I got the design for the racks. I will be changing the deminsions a little to fit the 41qt tubs but for the 32qt rack this is exactly what I am planning on. I had to order the 1/4" pvcx and will have it thursday. Getting it for $60 per sheet so If it doesn't work out, I won't have too much money invested on a failed DIY project, lol. Wish me luck.

http://www.northeastsnakes.com/racks.htm
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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I have no experience with that design but have talked to Jason before. You should email him and see if he's still happy with the design. If it's secure for colubrids (which I think he mostly keeps) then it should work for BPs.

I have NOT had any sagging issues and I've had my 1/4 inch PVCX racks for a little while now. I believe Josh emailed me privately about it and I told him I had the pine warp on my 16qt racks b/c they were too close to my heat source but NOT on my 32 qt lengthwise racks. Here's a pic:

I highly suggest that when you use wood that will eventually go in your herp room, you allow it to sit in the room for about a week to settle and bend/warp. Otherwise, you shouldn't have too much problems with 1/4inch PVCX if you support it well. I use my racks for colubrids, younger BPs, and dwarf boas.
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@aol.com

Hey Jason,

Thanks for commenting on this design.

Another option is to use strips of ripped plywood instead of pine. The alternating grain orientation of the plys keeps wood movement to a minimum.

>>Another option is to use strips of ripped plywood instead of pine. The alternating grain orientation of the plys keeps wood movement to a minimum.

Excellent Idea Chris!
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow Red Tailed Boas -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino Red Tailed Boa -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic Red Tailed Boas
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino Red Tailed Boas
0.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boa
0.1 Anerthrystic Red Tailed Boa
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

I've had them since this past fall.
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@aol.com