Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is a repost, I got no takers on the first one.
I bought it as a creamsicle, but all the pictures I see are more towards a cream color, no pun intended. I just got her because creams have a lot of babies. OK, and I had no creams and I wanted 1.

Thanks

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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

"I just got her because creams have a lot of babies."

What do you mean by that, do you mean that color morph produces more offsprind, because if so i dont think that is true.

They all produce around the same area, that i am aware of.

It doesnt look like a creamsicle though, but i havent looked at any creams lately. Just my opinion
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Cameron

It sort of looks like a Creamsicle(okeetee) or maybe a reverse okeetee.

Some of Dons look similar to yours.

But im no expert and its just my opinion
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Cameron

Anyone else agree with that call? If that is right, I will call the guy first thing tomorrow and get more. Don S does not have baby pic from what I can find. And again, I do not know how the color changes on these guys with age.

thanks again

-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

Creamsicles are an intergrade of sorts. To get them you use an Emory rat at one point? I think it's an Emory.

So that blood tends to let this morph have bigger clutchs. So I've read and been told. She was only $15, I wasn't even sure if she would eat. The guy had about 150 of them. She ate 3 pinkies in 3 days, I kept having extras from my hogs and she was always on the move. Now I wish I got a few more.

And me too, shes to pink, but maybe that changes? In this range of morphs I kind of like the butters.

Thanks
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

I didnt take into mind about the Emori part.

Oh well i tried.
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Cameron

>>Creamsicles are an intergrade of sorts. To get them you use an Emory rat at one point? I think it's an Emory.
>>
>> So that blood tends to let this morph have bigger clutchs. So I've read and been told. She was only $15, I wasn't even sure if she would eat. The guy had about 150 of them. She ate 3 pinkies in 3 days, I kept having extras from my hogs and she was always on the move. Now I wish I got a few more.
>>
>>And me too, shes to pink, but maybe that changes? In this range of morphs I kind of like the butters.
>>
>>Thanks

I breed creamsicles.
They do not produce any more eggs on average then any of my pure corns. At least not as far as I have seen.
Last season it was like an 18 egg average accross the board. Creams and corns.
That little jewel looks like it might turn out to be a nice reverse okeetee/cream or at least a good start towards a reverse okeetee/cream project.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Thanks Jim.

I got clutch amounts off Don S site, and a few other places.

Is that a cream I have? And maybe more imporatantly does it look oak/cream to you? I was more afraid some mutt of some sort. If there is a mutt in corns?

I tried to make my own chart on corn genetics. On the tiny bit of genetics (Corns) info I do know. I know why now there is no chart.
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

>>Thanks Jim.
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

I'm not sure what you mean as a mutt. Generally most color morphs are made by taking different features and trying to combine them in a snake. What would be so bad, and why be so worried about getting a "mutt"? technically a cream is a mutt because it is a mix between a corn and a rat. So, you specifically want a cream cycle but were afraid of getting a "mutt"? Sounds kinda contradictory to me. Not trying to be mean, just trying to understand your train of thought.
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**********Misty**********
I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once!

Mutt just came out while typing. I was a fraid when I bought it, it was not a cream but something else I did not really want. Ironically, if an oak cream I want 10 more. Heck maybe 20 for what I paid for it.
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

>>Here is how I see it.
In essence a cream is a mutt because it is emoryi/guttata but you were told it was cream so there is no reason to doubt that.
There is no advantage to having emoryi blood and to some it is a distinct disadvantage so it is very doubtful someone would say there is emoryi blood (creamsicle) if there isn't.
Now, there are some that say only the orange (cream) colored amelanistic emoryi/guttatus mixes are creamsicles and the reder ones are simply amelanistic emoryi/guttaus.
To make it easier in the trade I feel that it is easiest to convey emoryi blood in any amelanistic emoryi/guttaus mix by calling them creamsicles.
This has some people upset but things change, language changes, words take on new meanings, word usage evolves, sometimes you just have to go with the changes. At least as long as the meaning isn't lost in translation...lol
Either way, any ofspring you ever produce from that little beauty or any other emoryi/guttatus mixes, must always be labled as having emoryi blood in them.
But I digress, If you knew it had emoryi blood ( called creamsicle conveys that) and you liked what you got, especially for the price, then you couldn't have gone wrong.
You got what YOU wanted.
And like I said in my previous post, it looks like it could be used to start a nice reverse okeetee/creamsicle line.
By calling it reverse okeetee I am not insinuating it actually has okeetee in it, I am just expressing it can have the reverse okeetee look.
Nice, wide, white borders.
just for fun
one of my motley creamsicle babies

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Great post. Yea I knew the emory thing back in the family tree.

Just never had happend upon a pink cream pic out and about. (tongue twister there)

And things do evolve, I evolved to wanting more. And I called and he sold over 150 of those puppies. SIGH.

Thanks
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

Hey Jimmy, I have heard some people say that Creams lay larger clutches, and I do not have enough Corns to judge. However my het Cream had a record cltuch here last year, 27 eggs. The most I got from my Okeetee was 21 so far. Send me some pics of the ones you got from me, I'd love to see them Tom Stevens

>>Hey Jimmy, I have heard some people say that Creams lay larger clutches, and I do not have enough Corns to judge. However my het Cream had a record cltuch here last year, 27 eggs. The most I got from my Okeetee was 21 so far. Send me some pics of the ones you got from me, I'd love to see them Tom Stevens

I have heard that too, I just haven't really seen a difference here.
The little reverse okeetee/cream is in shed, I will get pics of him in a couple of days.
Here is the abherant patterned cream

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

But I am just about 99.999999% certain that Don Soderberg has told me numerous times that his emoryii cross animals lay smaller clutches (number) of larger eggs (size)!

In fact, the reason I am so certain of this, is because Don told me that part of the reason he thought the LA brand of corn (the Slowinski-Kastachie model) was a naturally occuring intergrade, was due to the relatively small number of larger eggs they produced for him.

Maybe I'm completely wrong about his conclusions, and I shouldn't try to speak for him at all, but I tried to call him about four times over the last few days, and he hasn't been available. So, if he sees this, he can say I was remembering correctly or not...til then...well I guess I'm no help at all!

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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

trying to make the longed thread? lmao

Been sick the last weeks or so, so I've hit this board a lot, I'm so lost on my posts as topics start to overlap at some points.

I bought that 1 cream because it was from a dealer I knew I'd be buying more stuff, it was $15 ! And yes I heard creams gave large clutchs. Even if small clutchs, I really kick myself for not getting more, a lot more. The guy has about 150, a week later they were all gone! Live and learn. I do see a guy in classified selling wholesale in large lots. I presume a good dealer, I have not caught on to how to check people on another site. I use to do ebay, everything was right there, what sold, sold prices, feedback, it was so easy. But I'll get the hang of this, not all that hard.

later

tom
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

It looks like the food item that it had before this pic was a little too big for the snake. Look how stretched it is. Just wondering if it was me.
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**********Misty**********
I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once!

Somewhere I posted, she had 3 pinkies in 3 days or so. Left overs from my hogs. And I know not a good thing to do. But as I was at my shelves, she kept coming up to the corner of her tub as I was feeding, and I kept having 1 to many pinkies.

I just took a pic, it's terrible for color, but you can see she digested well. Tomorrow hogs have to be fed, behind due to being very ill, the cream will get a big pinky for sure.

-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

If it was sold as a cream then it is and will forever be a cream. Its offspring need to be labeled as such also. Creams are extremely variable depending on how you breed them. If they have more corn blood than emoryi blood they tend to be more red (so I have heard) If they have more emoryi in them they tend to be more orange. When you heard "emoryi have larger clutches" what was most likely meant is that the offspring are physically larger also they lay LESS eggs usually under 10. Since most creams have more corn blood in them clutch size isn't really a variable anymore (like Jimmy slightly touched on)
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

I think you got it right on the head.

I mis read at least Dons stuff, oh well, I'm new to corns. lol

Ask me about Jackson Chams lol

-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

>>If it was sold as a cream then it is and will forever be a cream. Its offspring need to be labeled as such also. Creams are extremely variable depending on how you breed them. If they have more corn blood than emoryi blood they tend to be more red (so I have heard) If they have more emoryi in them they tend to be more orange. When you heard "emoryi have larger clutches" what was most likely meant is that the offspring are physically larger also they lay LESS eggs usually under 10. Since most creams have more corn blood in them clutch size isn't really a variable anymore (like Jimmy slightly touched on)
>>-----

That is true.
Pure emoryi babies do come out a little larger then pure corns.
And with the corn/emoryi mixes, in my case, it seems more about the size of the parents.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Tom,

That's a "very pretty normal." JK!
The trouble with creamsicles is that they're a cross with Great Plains Ratsnakes. This gives you two scenarios for variability:

1) Amelanistic corns are highly variable (candy cane, sunglow, reverse Okeetee, etc.) so the "look" of a creamsicle can vary as well.

2) Someone may take a creamsicle and breed it to an amel corn. The babies would still be considered creamsicles, even though the percentage of GPR is small. Therefore, you could have a creamsicle that looks pretty much like an amel corn.

Creamsicles do have larger clutches and tend to achieve a larger than average adult size than pure corn snakes. This is known as "hybrid vigor." Here is my het for cream female with a clutch of 30 eggs she laid last summer (most corn snakes don't lay 30-egg clutches).

Tim

Third Eye

Tim,

It is now 8:48 am, and been up all night, well since midnight. I guess sleeping for 3 days is trying to balance out. Called "old man vigor"

Been reading all night on these candy canes and miami thangs you guys call corns. Like I said I love charts. But its starting to sink in. Just so many combos, and if you have not done them I think it's harder.

Still plain on playing with some bloodreds of various types. But I need to talk to youabout what you breed. Lots of cool high end stuff. Prefer something unique in the P's O P area. Or maybe other ideas too. That german site had some sweet corns, including that leopard rat snake. Not a corn, but very cool. I still think end of summer will be the buying time. Your brain, my good looks,, eerr,, your brawn, my ,, no that aint it? Has to be a good combo there somewhere? Maybe co dominant, err no, thats not going to work.. Maybe I'll stick to getting Zops and crickets. lol

Lordy I hope to sleep sometime soon.

tom

>>Tom,
>>
>>That's a "very pretty normal." JK!
>>The trouble with creamsicles is that they're a cross with Great Plains Ratsnakes. This gives you two scenarios for variability:
>>
>>1) Amelanistic corns are highly variable (candy cane, sunglow, reverse Okeetee, etc.) so the "look" of a creamsicle can vary as well.
>>
>>2) Someone may take a creamsicle and breed it to an amel corn. The babies would still be considered creamsicles, even though the percentage of GPR is small. Therefore, you could have a creamsicle that looks pretty much like an amel corn.
>>
>>Creamsicles do have larger clutches and tend to achieve a larger than average adult size than pure corn snakes. This is known as "hybrid vigor." Here is my het for cream female with a clutch of 30 eggs she laid last summer (most corn snakes don't lay 30-egg clutches).
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>Third Eye
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

This is my Creamsicle!! Her name is Medusa... your baby is very cute and the breeder probaly wouldnt lie about the morph it is
~Katie

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1.0 Boa
1.1.1 Corn Snake
2.3.1 Bearded Dragon
0.1 Ball Python
3.1 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Marbled Gecko
1.0 Crested Gecko
1.0 Russian Tortoise
0.0.2 Fire Belly Toad
1.0 Whie's Tree Frog
0.0.1 Pacman
1.0 Schnieder Skink
0.0.1 Sudan Plated Lizard
0.1 Banana Cali. King
2.1 Canine
1.0 Dwarf Hamster