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My 6' female columbian boa is behaving very strangely. She has breed this season and is currently in shed (post ovulation?)
I took her out this morning and she is moving in a disturbed manner. Her head and upper quareter of body just started zigzaging in a S-shape or the infinity symbol (try to picture the figure 8 turned sideways) She just sits there moveing like this continualy, literaly turnig her head upside down with each sway in the manner described above. Its as if she is not in controly of her body. A disease maybe???

Im not new to snakes. Ive had many breeding projects this year but Ive never seen a snake do this. Its extremely disturbing and I quarentee its not normal.

Experiance and opinions wanted.
Thanks
Brendan
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And God said to Noah,"Let there be plenty of room for the serpents".
--not doctrine--

i have no expereince but to me it deffinately seems like there is something neurologically wrong. how is the male snake that she was in with? if it were me i would seperate her from the rest of your collection till things are straightened out.

>>My 6' female columbian boa is behaving very strangely. She has breed this season and is currently in shed (post ovulation?)
>>I took her out this morning and she is moving in a disturbed manner. Her head and upper quareter of body just started zigzaging in a S-shape or the infinity symbol (try to picture the figure 8 turned sideways) She just sits there moveing like this continualy, literaly turnig her head upside down with each sway in the manner described above. Its as if she is not in controly of her body. A disease maybe???
>>
>>Im not new to snakes. Ive had many breeding projects this year but Ive never seen a snake do this. Its extremely disturbing and I quarentee its not normal.
>>
>>Experiance and opinions wanted.
>>Thanks
>>Brendan
>>-----
>>And God said to Noah,"Let there be plenty of room for the serpents".
>>--not doctrine--

Brendan, sounds like some serious neurological issues...

Get her to the Vet, and quick!

In the meanwhile, try to disturb her as little as possible.

QUARANTINE her - get her away from EVERYTHING else, not even in the same room.

Quarantine everything new you get, or better yet, hold off until this is settled.

Let us know how things go.

best wishes, Bci Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Joe is an expert and you should take his advice seriously..
.
But let me offer an alternative (possible) diagnosis.. Heavy female boas that are in ovulation or already gravid very often display serious fear of falling.. SERIOUS fear of falling. Almost as if they will burst open if dropped. This is very exagerrated in first-time moms and especially if they are heavy and usually kept in a small cage. The symptoms you describe are not far off of what I have seen in normal females that are in perfect health and go on to deliver good litters.
.
I suggest you follow the advice you've been given and also "PUT THAT BOA DOWN AND DON"T PARADE IT AROUND AGAIN WHILE IT IS PREGNANT" LOL..
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Good luck.

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Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

Brendan -

First off, great job in describing your boa's "neurological-appearing" behavior during an ovulation/post-ovulation time period.

Secondly, what a fantastic explanation provided by Gus. I personally feel Gus is right on target with his alternative (possible) diagnosis.

Thirdly, to quote that other famous boa breeder, "PUT THAT BOA DOWN AND DON"T PARADE IT AROUND AGAIN WHILE IT IS PREGNANT"! I would NOT be dragging her out to some vet's office that probably won't have the foggiest notion of what is going on. Just leave her alone, wait, and watch.

Point of reference ... during this season's breeding period, for the 1st time I observed the EXACT same behavior with 1 of my first-time Snow females. It is somewhat similar to what I have observed in females at the time they are giving birth. They are extremely stressed out, can't seem to lift their head up, and appear completely disoriented. I might add that it really "freaked me out" (I guess Gus has a little more experience).

I am most intrigued and fascinated with both our observations and the explanation provided by Gus. I think this may be one of those opportune learning lessons for everyone.

By the way, my female was at 105 days yesterday and so I am on around-the-clock watch. She also seems to have adjusted to her rather plump condition and has gotten used to dragging her lower body around the cage.

Best of Luck, and I certainly hope Gus and I are correct.

Bill Gaines

bill@gainesreptiles.com

GainesReptiles.com

this is also interestign to me as i do not have experience yet with breeding boas. i would also assume it not to be a common practice to move pregnant boas around very much. i would be interested to know if anyone else has had expereince with this type of behavior. i think this behavior being 'normal' for an animal in this condition is very possible. as the chances for two individuals who have a good deal of expereince witnessing it in two different boas that turned out to be healthy is fairly slim. i think it might be benificial to the greater good to have video of strange behavior such as this for reference.

>>Brendan -
>>
>>First off, great job in describing your boa's "neurological-appearing" behavior during an ovulation/post-ovulation time period.
>>
>>Secondly, what a fantastic explanation provided by Gus. I personally feel Gus is right on target with his alternative (possible) diagnosis.
>>
>>Thirdly, to quote that other famous boa breeder, "PUT THAT BOA DOWN AND DON"T PARADE IT AROUND AGAIN WHILE IT IS PREGNANT"! I would NOT be dragging her out to some vet's office that probably won't have the foggiest notion of what is going on. Just leave her alone, wait, and watch.
>>
>>Point of reference ... during this season's breeding period, for the 1st time I observed the EXACT same behavior with 1 of my first-time Snow females. It is somewhat similar to what I have observed in females at the time they are giving birth. They are extremely stressed out, can't seem to lift their head up, and appear completely disoriented. I might add that it really "freaked me out" (I guess Gus has a little more experience).
>>
>>I am most intrigued and fascinated with both our observations and the explanation provided by Gus. I think this may be one of those opportune learning lessons for everyone.
>>
>>By the way, my female was at 105 days yesterday and so I am on around-the-clock watch. She also seems to have adjusted to her rather plump condition and has gotten used to dragging her lower body around the cage.
>>
>>Best of Luck, and I certainly hope Gus and I are correct.
>>
>>Bill Gaines
>>
>>bill@gainesreptiles.com
>>
>>GainesReptiles.com

Gus, you hit the nail bang on.

What I mean is my experience is very limited as I do not have the amount of years you and others have in keeping your collections or years in breeding successful litters. But with my 3 years with decent litters from 6 different females I believe I witnessed something as mentioned in 2 different boas from 2 different time frames. And on Monday I think I witnessed it again or something that at least comes very close.

My Guyana Redtail Boa (gravid female) and an Anerythristic Boa (gravid female) reacted somewhat like the figure 8 or close enough head movements. At first on the 1 occasion I was thinking she was going into shed and was trying to free the nose area, I was wrong because she did not shed during that day or week. I did worry for about half the day but what I witnessed was only an hour or so of confusion on my part. She later gave birth to 14 babies and after I checked her with a vet and nothing was wrong. When it happened again a year later with the Anerythristic I was more ready and decided to wait it out a bit more and in that case I actually misted here a bit and it stopped within that second and never seen it after. She then produced 17 babies and I again took her to the vet after and again no worries. Now a Hog Island Boa on Monday did something kinda like what I saw in the other 2, I am more comfortable with it because again it was only a few minute thing after I misted here and if all goes well and if I am blessed she will give me a simple litter that I can be happy with. All 3 females, different types, different years, somewhat the same scenario - but my fear was not more than just worrying than a real medical situation.

Gus when you say it can be the fear of falling, I think that can be something to consider. I never took out my girls and then saw this situation. My scenarios were more either simple observation or cleaning out 1 part of the cage that the boa is not using. Like you I do not or will not feel comfortable moving a gravid boa, just because a simple mistake can do so much harm.

Brendan this in no way means our different situations are the same because that would be hard to say really but the infomation your getting here from everyone helps you come up with your own conclusion.

I hope all is well and goes well for you with this girl.

Gentlemen.

Thank you very much for your inspired opinions. Perhaps I was too quick to "guarentee its not normal". Slight flaw.

I myself am a bit intrigued now with the symptoms displayed by a gravid female. Im not certain this female is gravid, because, I did ship her across the country in November (some people dont have as much success when females are shipped during breeding season) but she certainly breed well. Heres a pic of her in January.

I do not particularly make a habit of handling boas often during this time of the year but I thought she might like to stretch a little. Shes only in a smaller cage because she belongs to my buddy and thats all the room I had to accomadate her while I breed her to my male. It should only be temparay. I was planning to give her back to my buddy now that shes done breeding but I am leary to touch her now. I guess Ill just leave her be.

I think the theory of a fear of falling is very interesting. I wonder why all boas dont display that behavior. This female is only one of three that I breed for the first time this year. I havent realy tried to hold the other two recently but all seems well when I look at them. Then again, they all look fine until you touch them right!?

Heres a pic of the other two females and the orange salmon they breed (different male than the one above). The first girl is a 30lb normal breed to the orange male.

Ovulation.

.......and my prize blood red salmon female. Both the red female and the orange male are poss het anery so I hope to see some sweet ghosts.

Ovulation.

Thanks again for the advice. Good luck you guys with your projects. For the record....Im still an amature.

Brendan
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And God said to Noah,"Let there be plenty of room for the serpents".
--not doctrine--

I actualy did record my female acting bizzare on my digital camera. Its new and Im still getting used to it. The video feature works great and plays great on the camera but I couldnt get it to stream consistantly on my computer. I was going to send it to a few people. If any of you are interested when I figure out how to make the video play right just email me and Ill send you an attatchment. Ill post again when its ready.

In all honesty, the behavior she exhibited was as if she was having a seizure. Definately freaked me out at first. The sudden thought of loseing a beautiful gravid money maker is like loseing a close family member.!!!!!

Brendan
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And God said to Noah,"Let there be plenty of room for the serpents".
--not doctrine--