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I have this new male Woma, 5 feet several years old. Unknown what the previous home life was like. He is veryy hissy, and at the site of any human within a mile raises up into that figure 8 striking cobra coil and slams the glass. I have tamed some retics and one unruly Ball, this is my first Woma. I understand and know firsthand now when they bite it is with serious intent. So my thoughts are use a snake hook, and head pin him, head hold with gloves and remove him from the cage and see if he settles at all...perhaps just a cave territory type thing...and repeat this trying to get him comfortable with humans. Any thoughts? His worked for the retics...teh Ball was another he was confused he was another species deficating and urinating all over me whil flailing and biting. Any thoughts would be appreciated. He is beautiful, would love to tame him, and certainly want to keep him from killing himslef slamming the glass.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

I personally have never been a big fan of pinning the snakes head. I find that you get so much more of a negative response from the snake, i.e. aggression begets aggression. I have a few large white lips that I had the same problem with, striking the glass and biting at every afforded opportunity. I first covered the front of the enclosure so the snake literally could not "see" anyone who was near or passing by the enclosure (a slant front Neo). I left the enclosure covered for almost a month and just about every other day, I would bring them out to "play". I use gloves and bring them out quickly but gently. I generally use the hand over hand to keep them moving but not aiming at my face. I found out that the more gentle and relaxed I was, the better of a response I would get from them. Now I can handle my WLP's with no gloves and no hesitation. I wouldn't say they are "dog tame", I won't let my 6 y/o nephew handle them, but I haven't been bitten in a long time. It will take some time and you will get bitten a little, Man up and take the bite, be gentle and you will be rewarded for it.

Thanks, sound slike a plan...no problem being bitten been there many times with big retics, and an ocassional Ball, but I'm not out looking for it
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

And I don't think a head pin is hostile it is a safe and very effective means to deal with a large testy snake. This snake is in cobra raised up 2 feet high colied and pissed mode. There is simply no way to jsut politley grab him and take him out. A safe strategy for him, yes for him for remember a bite can lead to losing teeth and that can lead to mouth infections, and me, is to quikcly push him down out of the cobra strike mode, and then get him with two hands gloved out and work it from there. Recall other than male sparring snakes can't register agression otherwise they kill a darn rat that is chewing them up alive, and they don't. They register flight and fight fear responses, the need to eat, drink and find shelter and breed, little more. I was more hopeful someone had a mean Woma before (Jaykis has provided osme insights) and had some specifics on what might be the cause and some more specific strategies. I hea dpin, in a way all of our snakes as I enter their enclosdiures to clean. OIt is a training tool to show the teh difference in it's feeding time and I am in there to clean or play. I use a very simple 1/4 round 3 foot pice of shoe mold, and if they come out as I go in, and show that curiousity or colied neck pose I gently pressdown their head and pick them up, and they are just sweat as can be then. If I don't do this they know I am in there with food, and they do strike.

And as mentioned I can compare stitch marks and scars with the best of them having had very large retics bite...its an accepted part of the deal of owning pythons...but it is prudent for the human to avoid the bacteria from the snake bite and laughter of the ER staff...and avoide pulling out snake teeth. And by the way when you get bitten by a big retic and go to the ER you get a happy visit from animal control and have to do a lot to convince them you know what the heck you are doing, the animals are properly cared for and such...it gets real public and that's no fun.

Sorry for my rant but I thought this a legit question for some advice this being a new species to us, and the sarcasm if the answer hit me the wrong way.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

you sound like you were offended by my opinions, if you were, I apologize. I have worked with hundreds if not thousands of snakes, but I must admit, I have never worked with womas. I have found that a gentle approach has worked for me very well, I really hope it helps you in calming down this particular snake.

No my appologies I am on pain killers post an ugly gall bladder operation and probably have a bad disposition...but not as bad as this Woma's. I am sure we'll get him settled. I haven't had any species before that raise up to this cobra like strike pose so it poses a new challenge in how to diffuse that. He is beautiful and he ate a nice rat last night...going to move him to a fancier larger vision cage and see if with a month of covered glass and perfect environmentals he'll slowly chill out.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

I keep womas, and have not personally encountered an agressive one. I have understand your idea of pinning for your benefit and the snakes. Just keep in mind that a womas head is very sensitive and tactile,much more than other types of python. With this in mind the pinning techinque may only cuase more aggression, i can personally say that my womas and like big babies, but if i touch or grab there head they will quickly snap back into a striking pose for a sec and move along. As for actually taming him, it may just be a matter of letting him settle in. If possible keep him in something small compared to his size for accouple of weeks, a hide or even coving the front. I actually wrap my baby albino bloods tubs with paper, after a month they are complete comfortable with surrounding,noises and can be house in a clear tub again. Good luck
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1.1 suri redtails
2.1 chondros
1.1 womas
1.0 blood
1.0 albino blood

Thanks that is very very helpful. The head sensitivity will need to be accounted for and the leave alone for a month is definitely what we will do.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

Hi – I don’t understand the need to attempt to pin a python by the head or neck with a hook inside its cage. You just risk injuring it for no reason. Why not deflect its head away from you with a hook or any inanimate object, then pick it up with your gloved hands. I know it may not be easy, but you’re going to have to let go of that neck eventually anyway, right?

As far as husbandry goes, I’d suggest using a container with a top and bottom as its hide box, with an entry hole cut in the top that you can close off. If he’s that nervous, I’m sure he’d utilize it. Then you can just remove the box with the snake inside when you need to service the cage without having a rodeo. And if you want to lay hands on the animal, it’s a lot easier to approach it from above while it’s coiled up feeling all secure in its hiding place. It is much easier to habituate it to being touched in that sort of situation than when it is on the loose, cocked and ready to fire.

Of course, if he’s striking the glass constantly, cover half the cage front with newspaper. Again, suitable hiding places should aid this problem immensely.

-Joan

>>I have this new male Woma, 5 feet several years old. Unknown what the previous home life was like. He is veryy hissy, and at the site of any human within a mile raises up into that figure 8 striking cobra coil and slams the glass. I have tamed some retics and one unruly Ball, this is my first Woma. I understand and know firsthand now when they bite it is with serious intent. So my thoughts are use a snake hook, and head pin him, head hold with gloves and remove him from the cage and see if he settles at all...perhaps just a cave territory type thing...and repeat this trying to get him comfortable with humans. Any thoughts? His worked for the retics...teh Ball was another he was confused he was another species deficating and urinating all over me whil flailing and biting. Any thoughts would be appreciated. He is beautiful, would love to tame him, and certainly want to keep him from killing himslef slamming the glass.
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>>Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
>>www.3dpythons.com

Thanks for the thoughts. Actually a head pin is the most common technique used world wide for capturing snakes, etc., and is not something that if you know what you are doing hurts the snake in any way, anor does a hold of the head and neck...visit your vet sometime and watch how they handle your snake for a check up...or for the poor man watch Jeff Corwin. Joan (see not Jason) I have been working with snakes for 20 years from Garders to Retics that were 20 ft. Again what I asked here was any insights into bad Woma behavior and how they respond to that form of capture if it is needed. He is lightning fast and the moment you open the tank he is out and ready to rock, yes it is covered, yes he has great hides...he's just pissed. If you have dealt with Womas you know then they are not low to the ground like Balls or many other pythons just cocking their heads, they rise up 2 feet into a figure 8 moving coil similar to Cobras and many vipers. You are not going to catch them in the air nor are you going to push the head aside. You can with a snake hook, at 40 inches or so, depress the head slowly, it is cold they do not see it as a threat or food, their head will go down to the floor, you can then gently grasp the head and neck controlling what it can do, and with two hands lift the snake. This is safe for the handler and snake and what professionals do handling unknown and dangerous snakes, as in zoos, etc. You can then feel the response you are getting and choose to let the head loose or not...anyway I appreciate the comoments but suggest you have judged and are mistaken. That is not to say your methods do not work for you, but rather is to say that this handling is what people who live and breateh snakes do even if hobbyists don't.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

Mike, for once I’m darned near speechless after reading that post. I just hope that any beginner reading this thread doesn’t think that pinning non-venomous snakes to the floor with a hook to their head or necks is standard operating procedure. It just is not.

>>...Actually a head pin is the most common technique used world wide for capturing snakes...

Mike, I'm sorry, but that's just poor practice. (Actually, the most common technique "worldwide" is probably the sharp end of a shovel to the neck) Anyway, If I were in a field herping group and someone was capturing non-venomous snakes by pinning them with a hook to the neck, I would hope someone would take them aside and explain what gloves are for.

>>>...visit your vet sometime and watch how they handle your snake for a check up...

Any vet of mine who tried that, wouldn’t be my vet for long. There are many techniques for restraining snakes using gloves, bags, containers, shields, tubes, and “Brutathane” (yes, forcefully holding them down) that don’t involve pinning their fragile heads or necks to the floor with a hook.

>>I have been working with snakes for 20 years from Garders to Retics that were 20 ft.

I suspect I've got you beat in that department. And I shudder to think of using a hook to try to pin either a little garter snake or a large retic.

Okay, I guess I wasn't speechless after all. I'm done now. I promise.

-Joan

Evidently you have never worked in a Zoo, or with wildlife biologists, or with veternarians, and you are more experienced than all of them. Yes I am being sarcastic. When you administer meds or examine any unknown snake you hold thumb on top of head, support neck period. As for a hook...you may have an emotional issue here but that is hardly scientific or fact, it is safe an effective when necessary to protect the animal and handler...yes a bag on the head is an option too, one of many possible ways, all of which would be expolored. I am looking through my pubs and books, here sureely you have written a book being the world's leading expert on non-venomous snake handling. I stand at the alter to Joan, hail great snake expert. Instead of your continued attacks in nearly every post why not try to sort your opinion from rellevant facts and also consider that you have no idea of the background and education, etc. of who you talk to on this site...an opinion = I do not care for the use of any pinning techniques or head holding techniques with pythons...fair enough as expressed...ludicrous mix of opinion into claiming fact...it is not necessary for any non-venomous snake to ever...simply untrue, not factual. Stat opinions as opinions, and state facts or something based on some data as such. Is that too much to ask. Further to generalize is also silly. There is no one sure fire way to do anythin. To state one technique is never applicable or your one way is always is always best is audacious at a minimum. Most folks know too well you have to be creative and try many different things and learn always. Wishing by some time I'll let you wrestle a retic and you let me know how that goes without ever trying to control his head. I'll meet you at the ER, you bring the gauze I'll being the iodine we'll throw a party.

My original post was to solicit facts from Woma owners, particularly those that own many to see if this beahavior was common, to see if when it was experienced was there any cause adn effect type things noted, and to see how it was negotiated, and then to see if anyone had attempted to deal with a hostile woma in this manner and what kind of issues there were there. Good thoughts from Jaykis who has had 2 of 3 womas this way. Don Patterson provided 1 out of 10 Womas is crazy and incurable. Others provided Womas have sensitive heads and are tactile. Those are all meaningful comments, based on facts, not emotional baseless opinions. Thanks for making my morning again with your hostile nature. I sure hope you get some happy pills soon as you do seem to be an angry person.
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Mike and David at 3-D Pythons
www.3dpythons.com

I had a very aggressive large blood that would strike at any movement and i calmed her down by puting a tv close to her cage in her sight so she would get used to movement and not strike at everything.Just an idea for u.