Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Guys;

Any reason my little fellow has gone off his food. Initially I had trouble getting him to eat mice, then I found leaving them just floating he'd take them when I wasn't around. At the 'pet store' I got him from he was eating as many as 3 mice at a time from the forceps. He's still quite healthy, active & 'affectionate' as always just off his food. Is it possible it's the time of year they go off?? He's about 18", keep in a 75 gallon with 6 inches of water, water temps 85ish give or take a degree, he gets 12 hours of 75 watt heay lamp on his basking area (apprx. 1/4 of the tank) water is filtered with a fluval submersible, changed every 2 weeks, he's only ever handled when I clean his cage, every other week same time water gets changed.

Would it help if I found him a buddy of comparable size to induce a sorta competitive feeding response?? He is a pretty neat little guy I swear he recognizes me but when somebody strange just looks in his tank he lets out this deep outta the stomach growl / hiss.

Any comments suggestions greatly appreciated.

Dean

Hi Dean,

I think I replied to you on this topic (but I'm not quite sure) but my caiman almost ALWAYS eats horribly this time of year. It appears that she's hungry, grabs the rat, attempts to work it into the rights position then just gently shakes her head and drops it. I just tried feeding again today, and nothing. It's very frustrating, but sooner or later she comes around and will consume almost any sized rat facing in almost any direction with ease.

How long has your caiman gone without a meal? This time a year mine will eat 1 small rat MAYBE once a week (even as long as 2 weeks)- I retry every 3 days. During peak eating (maybe june/july) she can take a jumbo with relative ease.

Rob

He eats maybe once every 2 weeks & I've yet to see him eat since I got him. I'll drop the mouse in his water & about 1 out of 4 times I'll come down in the morning & it will be gone. Last week I tossed 2 mice in next morning one was gone. So it not like he's gonna starve,, just wanted to make sure my Temps were OK. Also there's 6 feet of snow on my front lawn we're still in the dead of winter here (Newfoundland, Canada) so I'm sure that could be having an effect. Thank God I have some garbarators in the Indigos they don't care if the mice are wet food is FOOD where those things are.

Thanks for answering, just glad to know this is kinda normal. Am still casually window shopping for a buddy for him.

Dean

>>He eats maybe once every 2 weeks & I've yet to see him eat since I got him.

Is this because you only feed him once every two weeks, or because this is all he will take once every two weeks?

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

Hi Dean,

How warm is the basking area under the bulb? I feel my enclosure's temps and heat gradients are pretty much on target, but I'm thinking it has much to do with internal clocks and seasonal light cycles (obviously if he's not warming up enough to digest properly that would be the immediate problem).

As for the need for a competitor, it's my understanding that dwarf caiman are shy and very unsocial as crocodilians go - a buddy may actually cause him undue stress. I also believe you run the possibilty of one dominating the other, I think this happened in the case of Chris Laws gators (sorry if I'm wrong Chris).

Rob

-I sent you a private email Dean, as well.

I also believe you run the possibilty of one dominating the other, I think this happened in the case of Chris Laws gators (sorry if I'm wrong Chris).

Yes Rob, you are quite correct. The smaller the enclosure the animals were in then we didnt have any problems. Once they were placed in my outdoor pen, all hell broke loose. In your case with the caiman, my recommendation would be to keep him solitaire. Dwarf species of caiman are naturally shy and non-social and the extra cage mate could cause your animal unnecessary stress which Rob as already pointed out. IF you decide to house more than one animal in an enclosure, my recommendation would be to provide an extra large enclosure. You want to reduce the possibility of them having to come around one another in an attempt to share the other animals space. (ie, hiding spot, water source, basking spot). You want to make sure that you have more than one of these places available so that they have other options to use besides the one single spot. This would help to avoid conflicts, while NOT totally elimating them. You could still end up with some crocs that are a little scarred up from battles with one another. In my opinion and from my experience, I recommend just keeping the animal by itself. It will be better for the long term health of your animal (not to mention less of a headache for you during feeding time).

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

In my opinion and from my experience WITH MY ANIMALS....

I wanted to add that as I didn't want to sound like I am saying I am some type of professional or anything. Just wanted to clarify that statement.

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

His Temps in his basking area are about 85ish same as his water temp. But he never seems to bask closest he'll do that I've seen is just crawl into the plants & kinda get on top of those but still in the water. I offer him mice twice a week & as I said in the initial post he'll take 1 every 3rd or 4th time, gonna try again today. As for a buddy, I was just toying with the idea, my buddy Chris McQuade (Gulfcoast reptiles) has kept Dwarfs in groups of 5 with no trouble but I suspect from what I have read thats not necessarily the 'norm' I also don't want to get into a situation, where I have another they don't get along then I have 2 big tanks to maintian. Thanks for all you help guys.

Will keep you posted.

Dean

>>His Temps in his basking area are about 85ish same as his water temp.

Well, firstly, you are not allowing him to thermoregulate properly if this is the case. You need to pick up the basking spot by about another 15 degrees. The water temperature you would probably want to lower by about 5-7 degrees. If he can't achieve a higher temp by basking, then there is no need for him to get out of the water.

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

OK so your saying have his water temps low 80's & his basking spot mid 90's???? What type of bulb would you recommend for this???

I'll get started tomorrow. Thanks again Chris.

Dean

Hi Dean,

I think you probably need to have a heat gradient with a maximum of about 110-120 degrees. I like using the infrared bulbs, not sure what wattage you may need for a 75 gallon tank.
I personally kinda get nuts with trying to adjust temperatures, but it soooo much easier once you transition from the tank to an enclosure.

Any luck getting him to eat Dean?

Rob (I'm starting to really like Dwarf Caimans and Trigs)

What I meant to say is my hottest spot (under heat lamp) is between 110-114 degrees, with the 2nd heat source producing 98 degrees and the third throwing of about 85 degrees. This pretty much gives the animal a broad range of choices or just the opportunity to lay out of the water within only the ambient temp. The typical choice is tail under the 114 degree spot, body under the 98 degree, and head laying unexposed.

Chris, you think 77 degrees is correct for the water temp?
I've had it there for a while and have been toying around with raising it.

Rob

"Chris, you think 77 degrees is correct for the water temp?
>>I've had it there for a while and have been toying around with raising it."

Personally, I dont go higher than about 80 degrees on water temperature. I typically like to keep it around 78 degrees. In the wild, crocodilians have different water temperature choices. They can either lie in the warmer surface water, closer to the bank, or they can do a complete dive down to the cooler deeper water. In private captivity, I can't think of too many who offers that capability. Typically, the water will remain the same temperature throughout the entire pool. Therefore, I think it's best to keep the water temperature a bit below the ambient air temperature, which I try to keep my ambient temps around 85ish. If they want to achieve their PBT, then they have the basking light of course. These are the temp gradients that I use for my P. Trigonatus and I dont' appear to have any digestion problems with him or anything. Also, the species of the animal is going to play a role as well. If I remember correctly, I thought Dean has a P. Palpabrosus, which are actually more cold tolerant and therefore lower water temperatures will not negatively affect him quite as much as your spectacled caiman in which I still feel that 77-79ish degree water temperatures is perfectly sufficient.

However, if I am incorrect, I would appreciate someone chiming in and letting me know. I am not even close to being a professional or anything of the sort and therefore coulde easily be wrong, but these are the temps that I personally use without any problems.

Hope that helps,

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

Dean,

Actually, my recommendation would be to have an ambient temperature of approx 82-85 degrees with a basking spot of about 105-110. I would lower his water temperatures to around 75-78 degrees. You want to provide him as many options as possible to keep his temperature where he likes it. Otherwise, this can cause undue stress to the animal. Thermoregulation is a very important part of a crocodilians health.

Hope that helps,

Chris

>>OK so your saying have his water temps low 80's & his basking spot mid 90's???? What type of bulb would you recommend for this???
>>
>>I'll get started tomorrow. Thanks again Chris.
>>
>>Dean
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

Hi Chris & Rob;

I've put a 150 watt infared bulb in yesterday & it got his basking area up to 93 degrees so I'm gonna go with something stronger. I'm also gonna slower lower his temps down to about 80. He IS a P palebrosus & in answer to somebody's question he DID eat a mouse late last week. Seems now most times if I put 2 mice in his cage he's almost certain to take one. Am gonna post a pic of his setup just so you guys can critique anything i may have done wrong.

Thanx again for all your help & interest.

Dean & Co.