Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Before the flaming can start, Here's a quick bio on my history.
I'm 25, and have owned or assisted with the habitat and lifestyle of six " large " pythons and numerous wild-caught local snakes. Of the pythons, I owned a Bermese Python, a Ball Python, and a Red Tail Boa. Sadly, almost six months ago, I moved across country, and could not fund the travel of the Red Tail and Berm, so I gave them a good home with a friend of mine. The Ball python, died of a genetic anomoly ( at least thats what the vet told me. )Although I say I have experience, I can see an arguement where I wouldn't be knowledgable enough. So, I ask questions so that when I decide on what type of snake, I better know the hazards and better practices of caring for my large snake. ( Note: None of the snakes I have owned have reached over 6 feet in length in my care. Both snakes that I have left with good homes have grown nicely and are still growing daily as I am told. )

So, with that said... I have a few general questions before going back into the snake owning hobby. Firstly, I have heard the debate for years about going to large with the initial enclosure... and I think I've figured out a way to avoid it. I plan to build a 7' x 4' x 4' plexi/wood enclosure in my spare room so I can keep the ambiant heat at a nice level a bit easier. Since I can seal the room ' away ' from the rest of the house, humidity and heat shouldn't be an issue. But, with an enclosure so large, when I purchase any large python, I shouldn't dump them straight away into the large enclosure. So, I'm thinking on creating a set of compartments that I can open as he/she grows up to size. What I wonder, would it be better to use a solid (colored or material ) divider, or just simply use a sheet of plexi to seperate the area?

About feeding, I have but one question.. Is it really better to feed your snake outside of its living environment? I've heard the rumor ( although it could be easily true ), that a snake becomes used to its habitat and feeding regimen and will become aggressive should this be altered in anyway. In such instances, those owners that have been feeding their pet in its home enclosure have been struck at, or 'bitten' by their pet when trying to remove the animal. As I've read on a few other websites, large pythons such as Bermese and Reticulated Pythons are the most likely to act in this manner. So, by general consensus of snake owners, is it better or does it matter where you feed your snake? Personally, I've not encountered this, but would like to know before I end up with a 10 foot python thinking my hand is just its next meal because I didn't have a rabbit to feed him/her on Monday.

Substrates: I've used both carpet and natural fibers for my snakes, but is there a "best" substrate? Or is it just your own preference?

Yea.. I think I've said plenty.. lol. Thanks for any help!

Joe

First, I'm probably less experienced than you are, and I can only tell you what others have told me and I've proven on my snake.

I no longer believe the notion that a little snake can't be comfortable in a big enclosure. If there are enough hiding places and a variety of hiding places so that he can find a spot that suits him, I think a little snake can be happy in a big place. I have my baby ball python in a 55 gallon long aquarium. Some people say that there's no way that such a little snake can do well in such a big tank. I give her plenty of hides, and she seems to do very well. While I still hear that I'm doing wrong by putting her in this kind of place, I have had some experienced keepers tell me that enough hides offsets the big cage.

Good luck,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Hi Joe –

First off, I think a well-designed, well-built, well-equipped cage that is really quite large would be awesome. Unfortunately, it can present difficulties in a private home. For instance, one with the dimensions you quote wouldn’t fit through a standard doorway. So you’d have to build it to fit permanently inside the room and then tear it down when you moved. You’d probably need to heat it with radiant heat panels. And you’d probably want at least one partition so that you could shut off a large snake on one side, because you would have to crawl inside that cage to clean it. You ought to check out the Caging Forum here. Read some posts, ask for help. There are some knowledgeable and helpful people there.

Regarding substrate, I’m a big believer in newspaper or plain paper, especially for big snakes that produce big quantities of wastes. When it get dirty, roll it up, throw it away, clean up and put down fresh paper. Simple.

Regarding feeding a large snake outside of its cage – this is one of the nuttier suggestions I see people making on these forums. I honestly think the people who recommend doing that have never personally dealt with a really large snake. It would put you in danger. And it would be stressful and possible injurious to the snake trying to drag a 50 or 100 or 200 pound animal with a stomach full of food back to its cage.

Regarding being worried that a big snake might regard your hand as food – I try to remember to assume that every snake I have may mistake me for food every time I open their cage and enter their space. It helps to develop a routine, especially with animals with aggressive feeding responses, in how you approach them.

-Joan

Thanks Joan and Bill.

I've read through some of the cage building forums, and have made notes of a few of the ideas I think I can pull off here in the space I have available. Joan, you mentioned that I would have to build the cage as a permanent fixture.. well, thats kind've the plan. I am well on my way to owning this place, and don't intend to move unless something huge comes up in the next 5-10 years. So, if the box is stuck in the room forever.. well. I can deal with that. Crawling in to clean the cage was something I hadn't actually thought through completely until you mentioned, but I think I may have figured out a design that would allow that and keep both myself and the snake comfortable. Thanks for that mention.. or I may well have forgotten to incorporate that issue entirely.

I was thinking of doing indoor/outdoor carpet in the flooring, but I was recently reminded of how much defecating my friends 9 foot albino red tail does. So.. I think that idea has been tossed. Maybe for the first years of its life I'll use some form of nice substrate.. but once he/she hits about 5-7 feet.. in goes the paper.

I've been bitten a few times, by a variety of snakes, including the poisionous kind ( thats one interesting story though ), so being bitten is never 'out' of my mind. Its a constant thought whenever I come in contact with any animal. However, with a 'huge' python, its not that easy to get them off of you if they decide to grub up on your arm. Thats really the only reason why I asked about the feeding system. I think I'll be just fine feeding him/her in the cage. Perhaps once in a great while, when I've got it outside for the occasional fresh air, I may do a feeding. But it won't be often, and will definitely be a small meal.

Now that my housing and feeding questions are relatively answered... I just need to find a shop around south Alabama that sells quality reptiles, the one here in town is rather... Well. They are listed here on Kingsnake, so I won't mention any names. Anyone that lives in my area already knows the truths of that place. I was thinking of ordering online.. but I am a bit worried about the quality of any animal I see on the internet, unless I'm buying from a current hobbyist/owner and can speak with them in depth about the animal. Anyone got a suggestion on a good moderately priced reptile site ? I'm looking for another berm, but am not against any other type of python.

Again, thanks for all the help.

Joe

I have to agree with Joan regarding feeding snakes in their enclosure. I think it is another one of those nonsense conclusions that some people regurgitate as truth. In my opinion, an aggressive feeder is an aggressive feeder, in or out of the cage.

And imagine after having fed a big snake, one that is an aggressive feeder, in a separate enclosure, you try and pick it up to move it back...

A also agree with Joan about cage size.. better to build two cages that can bolt together to make one large cage, such that the two halves can be later separated and fit through your doorway. Why? Because the person who says he/she won't have to ever remove the cage from the room will end up having to do just that (like the rest of us have had to do more often than we thought!)

Good luck. You sound like a consciencious person. I'm sure you'll do fine with your pets.

I have rethought the multiple piece cage idea. It seems that upon asking and looking around I found a GREAT price and design for a 2-story shed, thats nearly the size of most apartments ( only 7k full assembled including insulation ). I'm now thinking of building my own shed, of a similiar design that would best suit keeping multiple reptiles and amphibians while keeping the floorspace of my house open for any other ideas I may come up with in my lifetime. Since the shed would be unmovable if I ever decided to move from this area.. well, the cages would -have- to be able to be broken down and hauled.

This idea brought one very interesting question to mind. In most pet stores, reptiles and their choice of food are often housed near to each other. However, these places often have commercial air purifiers and circulation systems that keep the smell from getting to noxious for the customers, and also ( I think at least )from being potent enough to cause the reptiles scent prey constantly. If I build this 'shed' it would be approximately 10x15, and possibly 2 story. If I were to house a mouse/rat colony within the building, what style and size air purification system would be the best to use, or does it really have that large of an effect on the animals?

Also, since rats and mice don't really care what and where they live, would it be wise to keep the majority of the building to a relative heat and humidity of the reptiles, making the slight variances inside the habitats for the different species ( i.e. Red Tail Pythons and Bearded Dragons ), or keep a relative ambient temp in the room using a simple heating and cooling unit, and control all aspects on a cage to cage basis? By the way, in case it matters, I live in central Alabama, where the average winter temp is 20-30 degrees F, and summer temps can easily hit the upper 90's with a varying humidity of 75-90%.

Mice/rats will die at temps that hit 90 deg, and will stop breeding reliably at temps in the 80s. Any rodent room needs to be either low to the ground or else cooled during the summer and possibly heated to 50s/60s during the Winter. Go to the Feeder forum for more details.

A well-insulated shed will be easy to heat for boas and pythons, but if power goes out you would be well advised to keep an oil-filled heater for backup.

You can heat the snake room to 75-78 deg with a small room heater or two, and as a precaution use 2 thermostats (Ranco or Johnson) in series for fail safe. The cages can then be heated with heat tape for basking sites, or else use radiant heat panels or lights.

You can make it really easy on yourself and get frozen rodents. Then all you need is a freezer in the room. Way easier than breeding your own rodents.