Kingsnake.com
Chris Dieter
Crocodilian Care
February 26, 2006
PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Chris Dieter to our Eighth Annual Chat Week.
PHFaust: Chris along with his wife Bernadette are the owners and operators of Crocodile Encounter an educational wildlife company in the Houston area. He is the author of The Ultimate Guide to Crocodilians in Captivity and is coauthor of a forthcoming title from Kreiger publishing on the same topic. He has written over 40 herp related articles for various herptelogical publications. He and his wife maintain a group of Nile crocodiles(Crocodylus niloticus) and these animals and their care are the primary herptelogical interest. Chris has traveled the USA researching the various methods zoos and private keepers use to maintain crocodilians in captivity.
PHFaust: Thank you so much for joining us, Chris, and welcome!
CDieter: glad to be here
Adam105_nr: Have you ever worked with Steve Irwin and how do you feel you square up with him when it comes to crocs?
CDieter: No I have never worked with Mr.Irwin. We do very different things with crocs.
Adam105_nr: Oh I see....well I must say I respect and admire the work you do! And thanks for coming tonight!
cham_man_nr: What do you think about private keppers with crocodillians
CDieter: The problem begins when people in apartments purchase animals as hatchlings with no real forward thought about the animal as an adult. You have to think animal first.
cham_man_nr: I am looking into getting a dwarf caiman do you think that would be a good begginer
CDieter: Yes, probably the best choice overall.
krn: Hey chris howd you get into herps and what was your first herp?
CDieter: Turtles where how I got my start, I had great parents and turtles still remain a passion
krn: thanks
Papusaurus: Hello Chris, do you work solely with Crocodilians? Have you ever had the chance to work with Varanus Salvadorii, (crocodile monitors)...I myself work with two crocodile monitors..
CDieter: I used to have a large group of crocodile monitors and got quite a few eggs, but now primarily crocs and the animals we use in our educational business.
RedBeard92: Hi Chris, since you maintain a collection of Niles, do you find that some or all individuals show periods of fasting (during periods where temps are conducive to eating)?
CDieter: Good question. Yes, I was just talking about this with Israel Dupont today. Some Niles appear to have different appetites depending on the area they originate from.
RedBeard92: My caiman (and i understand other crocs) refuse food periodically
CDieter: I find animals originating from SAfrica eat far less in the cooler months than do Niles from East/West regions of Africa
CDieter: Thats normal, as long as the animals body weight is good I wouldn't worry much.
CDieter: But I worry alot anyway
_
RedBeard92: I've been going through this for 10 years
soderstrum: Hello chris how do you feel with so many people getting in over their head large alligators or crocodiles? Do you feel this should be left to the experts
CDieter: I am of mixed feeling on this one. I think people should have the oppurtunity to experience these animals but in reality very few are willing or able to commit the space/time/money it takes to keep them throughout their lifespan. So I'm kinda double minded on the whole affair.
CDieter: I personally would not sell a crocodilian.
geofri: what are your oppinions on slowing a crocadilians grow by reduced feeding? and what reading material would you recomend about captive husbandry of american alligators?
CDieter: Immoral, unethical and frankly anyone who does it shouldn't own the animal. I would recommend my book as well as a few others including websites such as crocodilian.com
Gailyn: Do you think the public should keep crocs or caimen as pets or do even the minis/dwarfs grow to be unmanageable for the novice?
CDieter: I think dwarf caiman, while certainly not small animals can be accomadated by many serious keepers. The funds are not extreme and neither is the space. I don't think many people will have success with gators or the larger crocodiles in the private sector.
CDieter: I do not think crocodilian bans are necessary in most cases. next
goini04: Hi Chris, what are your thoughts on enrichment for crocodilians? Enrichment appears to be picking up a bit for herpetoculture as a whole, do you think that it is beneficial in any way for crocodilians? If so, what are some recommended ways to provide it safely?
CDieter: I think enrichment is an important part of a captive crocodilians routine. It can be as simple as making the animal leave the water to be fed.
CDieter: What you hope to avoid is the continuos monotony that the captive environment is prone to produce.
king_dj_nr: is it crocidiles or aligators that preform bellowing?
CDieter: Both, but alligators are much more vocal than than other crocodilians.
Reptilefreak16: Chris, have you been called in at all to try and recover that loose gator, Bubba or whatever they call him, in california?
CDieter: No, I'm an academic. I research and write. I have just been informed that Steve Irwin will be attempting to capture Reggie.
UAWPrez: I see you are from the Houston area, do you have a public facility where you work with crocs and do you work with the zoo in Houston?
CDieter: We do not currently have a public facility, one has been in the works for some time but has progressed slowly. We currently do educational shows throughout the Houston area.
UAWPrez: how do we find how details where and when?
CDieter: We are currently working on a plan with an established park to bring our show to them permenantly.
UAWPrez: interesting...thank you
CDieter: details can be found on my website www.thecrocodileexperience.com
von_papineau: Sir; The recent press is making a lot of some events involving a few irresponsible or unlucky croc keepers who have allowed their animals to get out in public (either by accident or abandonment). There's a distinct move in some U.S. states for if not banning, at least registering large herps such as crocs, the larger monitors and pythons. There is even talk of having to have microchip in the larger herps to allow various authorities to determine the origin of an escaped/abandoned animal. Your thoughts on croc registration/tagging please? Thanks for taking time to be here. Wes (ends)
CDieter: Hi Wes, thanks for all the articles on the forum. I personally don't have much of a problem with ID chips such as AVID. I think we all should be responsible for our animals. If they had a chip with GPS abilities I would buy one for certain for each of my animals in the case of accidents. I guess I would prefer registration to an outright ban.
SpinsRetics: "Chris, Have you done much research on American Alligators in the Louisiana area, Atchafalaya basin more precisely? I live near here so would appreciate any feedback."
CDieter: I don't do field research, my research is on captive care scenarios.
soderstrum: Chris what do you feed your niles? Is there any live prey offered?
CDieter: We feed a variety of items. The primary diet is beef, poultry, and large rodents. We also use Mazuri crocodilian diet which is really excellent.
CDieter: fish on occasion but the results are better with the other items so it is just a treat.
teguD: Do you travel specimens over 6', and if so, in what?
CDieter: Since we only do our educational shows in the Houston area we use large rubbermaid containers and usually take animals in the 3-5ft range.
CDieter: You will need to build a crate. I don't their is a commercially available container large enough.
teguD: that's what I had found also, thank you
Reptilefreak16: what is the best way for people,who want to learn more about reptiles in general, to get a better hands on experience with the larger animals? like doyou take volunteers to help with your presentations?
Reptilefreak16: sorry
teguD: question was on transports, and source for the Mazuri diet
CDieter: Good question. It is often difficult to get someone to let you work with the animals especially if they are large predators like crocodilians BUT having said that I do have people help with out presentations from time to time. They watch for a few, then help when we need them.
PHFaust: Reptile herp societies in your area a good hook up as well
CDieter: Volunteering will often get you foot in the door as most need help with large collections. But I usually pay, I was poor once
goini04: looks like I'll be moving to Houston!
CDieter: look me up Chris
goini04: Chris, while handling crocodilians (in particular the larger specimens) it can be quite stressful for them, what types of measurements to you take to limit stress to the animals that you use in your educational programs?
CDieter: Most of the animals we use in the educational shows are 3-5ft. They are also somewhat used to doing the events and are pretty easily captures and taped. The total amount of time they are involved in a presentation is usually 10 minutes tops. We also rotate crocodilians so they really only work 1-2 days a month.
CDieter: Which is not very hard on them, we also use the shows to do basic maintenance while the animal is out so we kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
goini04: ok, sounds logical
NucklePhil: is feeding my asianwater monitor lizards and frogs bad for the monitor?
CDieter: I would not feed frogs to your water monitor
NucklePhil: are they good source of nuetriants?
NucklePhil: okay what about the lizards
CDieter: they are a good source of parasites.
PHAlex: Hi Chris, do you have any breeding programs for some of the rare crocs?
CDieter: No, I'm an academic and a writer. All breeding programs are conducted by a different kind of croc professional and zoological institution.
funkmasterchez: Chris, i'm pretty new to herpetoculture, only been in the hobby for about 2 years, but only heavily into it this year. i am only 15, and limited to what i can keep and breed, and cannot field herp as much as i would like to, but i am looking into pursuing a career in herpetology, i was just wondering the best way to learn, any books you reccomend, just want to soak up as much info as possible...
CDieter: Good question. If your talking about croc books and general information check out the Crocdirectory on the website www.thecrocodileexperience.com/crocdirectory
funkmasterchez: not neccesarily crocs, just herps in general
CDieter: it has tons of links. There are many avenues to working with reptiles.
funkmasterchez: okay, thank you
jiffypop: Chris, thanks for taking the time to be here. Are there any resources out there for captive animals that need to be rehomed? This is a concern for me since being involved in rescue we see about a dozen or more each year and they are difficult to place.
CDieter: Do you mean people you can send them to when they are rescued by you?
jiffypop: yes, that is what I meant
CDieter: You can look at the website above for rescue links. Also we take animals certain species before others. We take all Niles as that is our primary area of interest anda few others are out there.
CDieter: We will take any crocodilian in and move it to a suitable home if need be, we help out alot of rehoming organizations.
jiffypop: thank you
Reptilefreak16: Have you had any injuries caused by crocs or to the crocs, in mishaps during or on your way to shows over the years?
CDieter: We have never had a croc related injury. If an accident occurs it's always our fault. We use animals acclimated to the shows and are pretty experienced handlers.
PHAlex: How fast do niles grow in captivity?
CDieter: Great question it varies. I know of one Nile that is over 13ft at 7 years of age. I have one of his children and it is a very fast grower as well. I have a 7ft female who is just over 4 years old. And a 2year old that is about 4ft. So pretty fast.
PHFaust: Spinsretics did you have a question
SpinsRetics: yes, what is the maximum size that you've seen the dwarf caimans obtain?
SpinsRetics: thanks
CDieter: I have owned a dwarf caiman that was 4.5ft. It was the largest one I have ever seen. It was a broad 4.5ft and a very difficult animal to deal with. They may be dwarfs but they are rough.
geofri: when did your interest in crocodilians first start, and what was your first herp?
CDieter: a turtle was my first, my interest in crocs probably started about the time my interest in dinosaurs and godzilla did.
Sarcosuchus_nr: i worked with a male dwarf that was about 5.5
CDieter: thats bigger than any I have seen.
teguD: What form does that Mazuri diet you mentioned take? Is it cost effective compared to frozen rodents? Can you refer a source for ordering?
CDieter: Mazuri comes in a large biscuit and a small pellet. I order mine from my feed store, you can order it from my website and several other sources.
CDieter: I find it to be very cost effective.
teguD: so you just float the biscuit in the water and they ID it as a food source and take it?
CDieter: Yes, the pellets float in the water and the crocs take it. Some species better than others.
CDieter: BTW my dogs love Mazuri croc chow also
RedBeard92: Do you have any mature females that are unpaired? If so, do they lay eggs?- is there any problems with female captive crocs such as egg-binding?
CDieter: No on the female croc question. Females will occasionaly egg bind but it is by no means common.
goini04: Chris, does genetics have an ultimate play in how large a crocodilians CAN grow, or is it more related to environment, caloric intake, etc? Considering that crocodilians typically grow throughout their lives, but are pretty much limited by weather conditions and life span
CDieter: Good question Chris. Genetics matters. Just like in humans genetics help to control how fast and how large animals can grow. The conditions the animal is in either allow the animal to achieve it's potential or underachieve.
CDieter: As they approach a genetically programmed size their growth will slow. It will continue but it will slow.
TexasReptiles: are the niloticus you have, madagascan specimens?
CDieter: No, I have south african and east african animals. Niles are a mix these days from most suppliers however and it is often difficult to correctly trace the origins
MyPettingZoo: Hello Chris and thanks for taking time to visit with us Do you as a croc expert think that they will ever lift the ban in florida or ala on owning saltys or florida gators
CDieter: No, simply because they have a adequate permit system.
CDieter: You get the correct permit and you can own the croc of your choice. It's not bad deal.
geofri: what is a most practical size indoor enclusure for a 1-2' american alligator? and what do you personally use for one that size?
CDieter: I would use a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. It's 7ft long and about 3ft wide. t also has a drain at the bottom.
teguD: Do you know if legally you have to have a USDA licensed facility to possess a West African Dwarf Croc?
teguD: I meant AZA facility - sorry
CDieter: USDA doesn't regulate crocs, USDI does. And yes you will need a permit to get one out of state.
CDieter: oops didn't see your AZA, no on the AZA.
teguD: anybody breeding them in the US - if you know?
CDieter: dwarf crocs become available from time to time.
CDieter: yes, a few folks.
teguD: so no facility licensing or inspections, but have to get a permit from USDI to transport across state lines like any other Endangered species? I have this right?
CDieter: Yes teduD, you may need faciltiy inspections depending on your county and state laws, not the USDA.
jeffb: How did katrina impact gators?
CDieter: In lousiana, miss, alabama it destroyed some gator farms and has pushed the price of alligators up.
geofri: what is the main part of the diet of a wild nile croc?
CDieter: Large mammals, a large variety of fish, small mammals. Nile crocodiles are survivors and will take any prey they can catch. A large portion of Nile crocodiles go hungry for long periods in the wild.
geofri: is it nessasary to provide UVB lighing for indoor captives? and what about pebbles/small stones, for digestion?
CDieter: No on the UVB, if you want to use it thats fine but it certainly is not necessary. I have never used it. I use pebbles in my enclosures. They will ingest them from time to time. Some people in the field prefer sand for their own reasons.
goini04: Chris, do you feel that an alligator having to stay in water through the majority of a cold winter in order to stay warm (ex. The Colorado gator farm and their Hot spring usage) has any negative health effects on the animals?
CDieter: Hard to say, I have my doubts that it wouldbe harmful. Going there is on my list of places to research in the near future so let's put that one on a wait and see list.
PHFaust: And I get final question. I notice this evening and on your site you mention mazuri as a staple diet componant. I plan on looking at this for future use, but it caught my eye when you mentioned it was better than offering the fish. was this nile specific or across board. I run a rescue and regularly have american alligators here for a short time and a dried storable diet would be LOVELY rather than running to the fish market every time. Other than ease is there another plus to Mazuri?
CDieter: Mazuri is far superior to a fish diet. The mazuri diet is nutritionally complete. Most crocodilians raised on fish tend to be rather 'soft' looking compared to animals raised on red meat/poultry. This is across the board.
CDieter: You would enjoy the mazuri
goini04: Be prepared for LOTS of water changes though!
geofri: I talked with somone today, who keeps gators, and he said you need a UVB light or they will get MBD, do you think he was just playing it safe? of trying to sell me a light?
CDieter: He's wrong. Alligator farms often raise hatchlings in complete darkness to reduce stress. I have never used UVB and your welcome to have a look at my animals.
geofri: thanks so much! hope to talk with you again
CDieter: anytime
PHFaust: On behalf of Kingsnake.com, Jeff B, and myself, I want to take a moment to thank Chris for being part of our chat week. Chris thanks for taking the time out to chat with us on crocodilians.
CDieter: No problem, I enjoyed the chat.
PHAlex: Thank you Chris!
CDieter: Good night room!
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Cindy
PHFaust
