Reptile & Amphibian Forums

okay, ive read enough questions so I know what you are all going to ask me so im just going to lay it all out.

Type: 1.0 Sumatran Blood Python CBB

Age: 15 Months

Tank set-up: 30 Gal Tank/screen top/overhead lamp 75watt bulb/towel covering remainder of screen top/water bowl

Substrate: Repti-bark

Temps: 89F (H) 84F (L)

Humidity: 65%

Symptoms : Sneezing, nasally breathing, wheezing, huffing.

Last fed: 2/27/06 medium f/t rat

water consumption: moderate to frequent

last shed:2/11/06

actions taken: increased bulb wattage from 60 watt to 75 watt and covered exposed top of screen top with towel to increase heat and hold in humidity. began misting tank daily. took out large sized water bowl and replaced with smaller one to keep cold water soaking from causing any further problems. took out hide to utilize increased temps.

possible diagnosis: RI, upcoming shed, humidity issue

What are your thoughts on what could be wrong and what more can i do before taking the animal to the vet?

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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python

Is the snake showing signs of an impending shed? The pics don't show...If so, the increased nasal, hissy sounds may only be consistant with that pending event. If youre not used to blood breathing and their noise making generally, R.I. will come quickly to mind. If the snake is in pre-shed condition, and if I were in your position, I'd wait to see if the condition doesn't improve dramatically after shedding. Everything else points to a healthy,well kept blood; handsome too!
Maybe the others can jump in here with their experinces and thoughts too. Please let us know how it goes.
Bill

Whoops! Just re-read your post. Just shed four weeks ago? Assume then hes not in pre-shed condition...and if the symptoms are markedly increased? I would be more concerned. The temps you note: are they taken on the substrate?

the temp is taken uing an affixed thermometer with probe. thermometer is attached to the side of the tank at the high end with probe attached to the cooler side.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

using* (dang keyboard)
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

But he just ate and seems fine otherwise. Hummm... Did the noise just came on or increased dramatically? Have you had him long enuff to have a baseline for "normal" for him? If you just recently aquired him, can you trust in his good care previously?

condition started about 2 weeks ago. python was acquired by me as a neonate on nov 21, 2004 @ the atlanta reptile convention.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

Well, I'd be taking him to see the Vet on Monday. My prior experince with R.I. Tx was mixed. Good response to Baytril, but I hate subjecting the snake to repeated injections. Hope for the best for both of you.

Assuming your blood does have R.I.It is always a clear sign when you open up his mouth he has a gooey mucus.From my past experience I decreased the humidity and boosted the ambient temps up to 85' low end and 90' high end.That knocked the R.I right out.it should work within a a week if caught in time.I also have had a problem with bulbs or overhead heat.It dries out the air too much.
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Ashley Lopez's Black Forest Constrictors.
blackforestconstrictors@gmail.com

nice and pink

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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

Hoping that Ash's experience is applicable, you could try a dry, warm enviornment with bottom heat and see if the breathing doesn't clear. That would be so good!

When dealing with blood pythons, you should be very careful when lowering the humidity. I have seen too many cases where low humidity has caused breathing problems with even healthy bloods. The drier air tends to desiccate the lung tissue causing noisy and stressed breathing. Extended low humidity, much below 60%, will cause bloods to become increasingly susceptible to RI's. If they do develop an RI, you definitely do not want the humidity too low. Best to keep it in at least the 65% to 75% range, and as with temps, measured at the substrate level only. Many people have their humidity gauges or probes measuring the levels well above the floor where the humidity is actually lower than at the floor level, and this gives the impression that bloods can tolerate lower humidity. Humidity in their natural habitat is typically in the 75% to 85% range, but does not need to be quite that high in captivity. And as Ash pointed out, interior heat bulbs should be avoided, as they will drastically lower the humidity. If you do not see a mucous build up in the mouth, I would raise the humidity and temps slightly before giving any thought to antibiotic treatment at this time. Just my thoughts on it.

Kelly

I have a 05 red male that had these symptoms a few weeks after aquiring him. Granted my set up is different then yours, but heres the story. I keep all my neo's and juvi's in a rack with tubs, This paticular blood was in a 15qt tub with cypress mulch, water dish, and hide. When i first noticed the symptoms i cleaned out the tub and put him on paper towel to decrease humidity. As days passed i noticed the discharge from his mouth and the left nostril was visible clogged almost to the effect of a scab over it. So i took him to the vet, his weight was good, and hydrated. I was given baytril and tribressen to administer orally once a day @ 1/10th a ML of each chemical. i did this for a week, the discharge was clearly gone but the scab was still there and the weezing noise was evident when he was approached. Keep in mind through out this whole experience the snake never stopped feeding drinking or acting otherwise abnormally. Anyway 2 weeks later after the vet visit and medication he shed and was 100% healthy, the scab was gone and noisey breathing had subsided due to the fact that scab came off with the rest of his shed from what i believe. Im not sure if this does you any good, but thats how it played out for me.
Good Luck

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1.1 suri redtails
2.1 chondros
1.1 womas
1.0 blood
1.0 albino blood

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Yes...my rack uses indirect heat as opposed to sitting directly on flexwatt or a pad for example, but its from below
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1.1 suri redtails
2.1 chondros
1.1 womas
1.0 blood
1.0 albino blood

well, I would put my snakes into racks but I dont care for racks. Ive seen many racks that people have and in most cases whenever they pull a tub out it will jar the snake. Im not sure if it is the type/brand of rack they are using but the tubs get stuck tight and a good hard yank is necessary to pull the tub out. usually ticks the snake off when that happens. so I prefer to go with a more conventional method of storage to avoid that problem. Plus, I think theyre ugly (racks). To me, a rack is for people who have a lot of snakes (breeeders, businesses) and need the room. However, I find it easier to house them seperately so I can monitor each one individually without having to interrupt their current activities. besides, when theyre in racks it is too easy to forget about taking care of them. tank setups let you know when you have a problem to fix as soon as you walk into the room.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

Well let me just state that my previous post was not suggesting you should keep your animals in rack system, which is confusing being your reply way pretty much just putting racks down? I was simply explaining the situation i had with my one of my bloods RI inlight of your situation. I am not a professional breeder, simply just a hobbyist. But...since you brought it up and shared your oppinion, ill share mine. I completely disagree, i have a AP rack which ONE of the best out there, i have never experienced any of the problems you mention. It does save alot of space Which important to me because otherwise id have 10 - 10 gallon aquairium tanks all over the room. It benefits me and the snake when it comes to maintanance. The tubs are extremely easy and quickly cleaned.They hold humidity extremely well. There arent any wires or cords all over the place. 1 cord for the heat and the whole unit is controled by one t-stat. On the other had i do keep my bigger stuff in cages, like visions or boaphile. But I personally wouldnt keep anything in a glass aquarium for certain reasons like..they have screen tops, they dont hold humidity, glass is a terrible conductor for heat, and they are completly transparent which lead to a lack of security..not to mention heavy. But hey thats just my views on it, im not an expert, it works for me. Dont take this the wrong way because its not my intenetion to offend , i just figured id share my opinion.

"well, I would put my snakes into racks but I dont care for racks. Ive seen many racks that people have and in most cases whenever they pull a tub out it will jar the snake. Im not sure if it is the type/brand of rack they are using but the tubs get stuck tight and a good hard yank is necessary to pull the tub out. usually ticks the snake off when that happens. so I prefer to go with a more conventional method of storage to avoid that problem. Plus, I think theyre ugly (racks). To me, a rack is for people who have a lot of snakes (breeeders, businesses) and need the room. However, I find it easier to house them seperately so I can monitor each one individually without having to interrupt their current activities. besides, when theyre in racks it is too easy to forget about taking care of them. tank setups let you know when you have a problem to fix as soon as you walk into the room."
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1.1 suri redtails
2.1 chondros
1.1 womas
1.0 blood
1.0 albino blood
0.0.1 Southern White Lip

sorry if i seemed rude and confusing. had just crawled out of bed. yes, i was putting racks down just like you were putting tanks down. yes they are heavy, but how often does one move the their tanks? mine have been sitting in the same spot for over a year. ive seen rack system tubs get so high with humidity that it looked like someone had installed a sprinkler system in the tub. i dont have that problem with tanks. sure you have the issue with lower humidity thats why you get up off your butt (not you specifically...just people in general) and go mist the tank. security? ummm isnt that what i buy hides for?
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

But thats the confusing part, my original post had maybe five words in it pertaining to how my paticular snake that i was talking about was kept to give you or anyone else back round on the animal just like you did in your original post, but i didnt make any comment about your set up from your orginal post even though i preffer to house my animals in differnt ways. Either which way, to answer your questions, when i used tanks i had to move them lift them to clean them and disinffect them? The tubs you see that look all wet were probably meant to be like that just as if you were to spray your tank, the only difference the tank would dry out faster. Sure hides are for security, but where would you put a hide for a neo or juvi chondro? All and all this irrelevant, because i was simply trying to give you allitle insight to my experience in hopes it may help you, not judge by your methods of husbandry. good luck
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1.1 suri redtails
2.1 chondros
1.1 womas
1.0 blood
1.0 albino blood
0.0.1 Southern White Lip

just to let you know, i often will answer multiple questions/comments in one post. so, if you ever say to yourself "i never said anything about that" its because you didnt. someone else did.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

These misunderstandings are an unfortunate piece of electronic communication. We all want your boy to get better and are trying in some way to help. The miscommunication probably would not occour if we were all talking face to face. Please let us know how it goes.

no i am not. i meant to and even got an undertank heater but my new boa unexpectedly arrived so i had to use the heater for it. need to go out tomorrow and pick up another one. start using it.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

no, i do not measure the humidity from a higher level. the humidity is checked at ground level (you just cant see the gauge in the pics). as stated in the first post, temps were already increased.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

Under tank heating will heat the substrate differently when using newspaper as opposed to a mulch or shaving bedding. Mulch beddings can be considerably cooler under certain conditions on the surface than newspaper, due to the better heat transfer obtained with newspaper in contact with the cage floor. Proper temp. is as critical as proper humidity concerning RI in blood pythons. The large water bowl you have in that 15 qt. tub probably gave you a good humidity level within the enclosure even when using paper towels or newspaper. If you only had this male for a few weeks, it is highly likely that it was nothing you did considering your setup.

Kelly