Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This Pair I got from Michael Price, from San Angelo this weekend. They are proven and will hopefully throw some nice babies for me.

first pic is the male and the second is the male

That was confusing 'till you see the pic!
Todd Hughes

I've never heard of it. Thanks!!

PL

Upton county... northwest of King Mountain, seperated by Castle Gap. In fact, you can hit a golf ball into Crane county from the spot where we collected the adults...
Thanks!

Happy herpin'...

MP

Michael beat me to it, here is a pic of the female that produced my two gems. Michael again, awsome snake.

N/P

That darkun' looks pretty cool!
Todd Hughes

I've never heard of Castle Mountain, other than a place in Canada with that name, which is just a few miles north of the known range for alterna. Where is this locale? Thanks for your time.

Look up Buried Treasures of Texas by Jameson... good reading.

Forky

There are so many different names for these snakes that people make up just to get a better price. Whether the snake comes from Black Gap or Langtry, its still JUST a grayband!! I have heard at least 10 names for these snakes. 80% are just from where they were found. There are trully only a few types, besides morphes people have come up with. There all ALTERNA, so please dont be fooled into paying more for a GBK because of the local is was found. I would only pay more for something rare. Like a predominantly red king, or a stripped king, or a albino. All the other morphs can be found in the wild. I have found several that have had no red at all, and others that are very brightly colored with redish orange. Its funny to see how people want more money for a snake that they found down the road from one they have for cheaper. You can find GBKs throughout the Big Bend area. Its not anything special just because it has a fancy name. Every Mountain range in west Texas has a name, so how does that make a snake from one or the other any different besides a few markings.

Maybe this will help you out.

"CASTLE MOUNTAIN (Crane-Upton County). Castle Mountain, on the Crane-Upton county line six miles south of Crane (at 31°18' N, 102°17' W), reaches an elevation of 3,151 feet at its summit. The mountain received its name from early Spanish explorers who thought it resembled a castle. It is composed of limestone and calcareous clay mud substrate with shallow, dark clay soil. Juniper, oak, grasses, chaparral, and cacti grow on it. Castle Gapqv divides Castle Mountain and is a landmark and spring-fed watering place that has been used by travelers for centuries. In 1968 a 100-acre park at Castle Gap was given to Upton County by the family of Caton Jacobs, owner of the property since the 1930s."

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/CC/rjc12.html

the elucidations of such imperial "alterna-ness." Thanks for clearing that up for all of us. Guess I'll just give away the one's I have since "there" (they're) nothing more than Gray Bands. Gotta get some of them rare morphs now.

Some thoughts are just better left un-thunk! (LOL)

I didnt say the range doesnt exist. In fact it does and I have been there in the years past. Im just stating that every other day someone makes up a new name for for a Graybanded king. Just because the snakes come from different ranges doesnt make them any different from the other. They are all native to the Big Bend area, so why label them. Is a grayband from Langtry really any different from castle mountian or Sanderson Texas. There may be a slight difference in color, but they are, for the most part, the same. You dont hear the phrases River Road Trans Pecos Rat, or Davis Mountains Trans Pecos Rat. You just hear Trans Pecos Rat. Thats the point. You may hear ( blond phase ), but thats really it. Everyone wants to pinpoint there graybands like it really matters. You would have better breeding prospects if they were from different areas. You wouldnt have related snakes. definatly dont get rid of your snakes just because they are normal, but hope you get some rare offspring. You have a real nice pair of Alterna and I hope you have a huge clutch. I will post a few pictures of my pair of "Black Gap Alterna" that I collected last fall just north of Sanderson once I find my camera. Both that I found have NO red pigment at all. I found them breeding in a culvert.

No one that I know is claiming that "locality" alterna are different in some fundamental way. They are all Lampropeltis alterna, which currently has no recognized subspecies. But what has become obvious, to those with extensive collecting experience over many years, is that alterna from some localities show different "suites" of characteristics than others. The fact that you found alterna without red pigment outside of Black Gap proves precisely nothing, since nobody I know claims that that characteristic is only or predominately seen in Black Gap animals! But Black Gap Alterna are prized for the "suite of characters" they commonly exhibit, including some not often or ever seen in other areas. Take a look at Dan Johnson's website and you'll see what I mean.

As another example-go to "The Alterna Page" and check out the pics of specimens from "Boy Scout RD" in the Davis Mntns., and compare them to, for example, "Juno Rd." animals. I think you'll have to agree there is a big difference!

Brad Chambers

are you related to Tank by chance?

Forky

Joe, if this is the case then you can definately find a Langtry looking animal in Black gap. LOL
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Steve W.

LOLOL!!!
Todd Hughes

Go to the GBK forum and read. Then view. Then spend your own money and try to find one of these gems from these locales. Not so easy and way more expensive. A true locality snake that you like from a reputable breeder is worth every penny the breeder asks for. If you didn't make the effort to find it, then you pay for the priveledge of owning one.Just my .02. And I have PAID!!! And will again!!!
Todd Hughes

I'm a witness to that!!! I WAS there (in the West Texas desert) and got the T-shirt AND the GBK (ok maybe not the T-shirt, but definetely the GBK)!!! YOU DA MAN - Antelope!

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Nah, Forky's "da man" and I think he has a little German in him! He and some of these other great folks here were kind enough to point me in the right direction and I'm glad noone gives out exact locales. The best thing about the Bend is it is big enough for adventure and big enough to be in Texas!!! Joe how's the hog and splendies? Shoot me some pics! Next, pictigaster and bairdi along with the G.B.hunt. My male splendy is getting randy. Who the hell is Randy????
Todd Hughes

>>Nah, Forky's "da man" and I think he has a little German in him! He and some of these other great folks here were kind enough to point me in the right direction and I'm glad noone gives out exact locales. The best thing about the Bend is it is big enough for adventure and big enough to be in Texas!!! Joe how's the hog and splendies? Shoot me some pics! Next, pictigaster and bairdi along with the G.B.hunt. My male splendy is getting randy. Who the hell is Randy????
>> Todd Hughes
>>

That cracks me up! I was going to ask the same question about you "If you had a little German in you?" haha.

Hoggie is hanging on, ribs seem to be healed up, and the splendidas are really Randy! I don't know who Randy is either though?!

You looking for Bairdi this year? I was put on to a nice area. Road hunt North of Dryden about 20 miles up. For the longest time, I found nothing, but I was told this is a good area, and ever since, I have been finding Bairdi every trip. Last fall I was lucky enough to find 3 within 2 miles of eachother. I think there is a den around there somewhere. I am yet to find Bairdi anywhere else, but I know there out there.

baird's rats range into the county I live in (N.W. Bexar) and can be found within a 20 to 30 minute drive from my house.

Just W.N.W. of there is some of if not the best Baird's Rat snake country north of the Rio Grande (on the Edwards Plateau).

IMO the best Bairds come from that region and the Galeana / San Roberto Hwy in Nuevo leon.

Forky

Me neither, but he's got a little German in him! HAHA! Good to hear from you and I was pullin' for that little guy. So it's pretty crunchy out west? Dang, we need to do a rain dance!
Todd Hughes