Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a MBK and was wondering if anyone had used sand for them. The natural look would be nice, but I didn't know if anyone had any bad experiences with sand getting into their ventral scales. Not your ventral scales... your kingsnake's. Thanks for the response in advance.

Sand may look nice but it is not the best choice as substrate. Sand impactations almost always end in the loss of your animal. There are better choices for natural looking set ups, but i always reccomend paper towels for hatchlings and newspaper for adults. Sure it doesn't look as nice but it is cheap, very easy to clean, and will not be ingested and kill your animal.

Impaction isn't really a concern. I never feed in its enclosure. He is on aspen right now, but I really want a more naturalistic substrate. I agree that newspaper would be the easiest but I really want this to be a decent display. Maybe some baked soil or frozen/sunbleached leaf litter. I am designing an enclosure with a pipe leading down to a drawer-style hiding area. I'll probably use newspaper down in the den area, but would like something different up top. I've used bark/leaf litter before for other kings (more temperate forested types)and didn't know how the MBK would deal with it.

I understand you desire for a nice display, but sand is not healthy as a substrate. It is considered a no-no

Ingestion while eating is not the only way for substrate to get into your animal. If you absolutly need to use natural substrate just use clean soil.

Again, it's not as safe as newspaper & it's not my first choice but i have been told this is the safest of the natural substrates.

I've recently begun using Eco Earth, and I like it a great deal. I actually use multiple substrates, and I think they're working well. I'm going to try using the crushed walnut Lizard Litter in some parts of the cage. This stuff looks very much like sand, but it's an organic product.

Good luck,

Bill

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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Bill - before you use the crushed walnut litter talk to a herp vet.. The top herp vet here on Long Island says it's his least favotite choice as it accounts for most of his impactations. He said that it is due to the fact that once ingested it then swells up in the GI tract due to the moisture.. I would not use it..

Thanks for the warning. If I put the crushed walnuts away from the area where he feeds, is swallowing still likely? I would think that as long as he's not feeding near this stuff, he should be out of danger. I'm also wondering whether the stuff would really swell that much more if it's already damp from being sprayed by a water bottle. Either way, I'll give the whole idea some more thought.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

>>I have a MBK and was wondering if anyone had used sand for them. The natural look would be nice, but I didn't know if anyone had any bad experiences with sand getting into their ventral scales. Not your ventral scales... your kingsnake's. Thanks for the response in advance.

SAND

I’ve been housing, snakes for about eleven years now on sand. I have tried different kinds of sand. The play sand has too many fines in it. The fines absorb up moisture, so a 1” spot will turn into a 3” spot, coarse sands don't absorb anything, I use a cleaned (dust free) Monterey #3/12 grade kiln dried sand (its a smooth beach sand more or less). it’s kind of hard to find, I buy it at industrial supply stores. It’s used for sandblasting .it’s about eight dollars for 90 lb. Bag. Retains heat well, doesn't dry out reptiles skin like wood shavings might.I think it’s easy to clean, all I use, is a plastic spoon and paper plate, just scoop it out and try to pick up most of moisture after each feeding. I clean my tanks, about twice a year, remove all sand , and clean the tanks with bleach and water. I recycle my sand, by putting it into a bucket and letting it soak in bleach and water for a few days. Then I stir it up with a stick. Push a hose to the bottom of the bucket until water runs clear on the overflow. I then pour it into sandbags and let It dry out till the following year.
I have never had a problem with any of my snakes getting sick or dying yet.Just be careful when feeding that they don't digest a bunch of any substrait. Some of the general care and maintenance books view sand as, (quote; a attractive, natural-looking and easily changeable ground medium.) They only talk about certain types of wood shavings (Quote: cedar, redwood and some snake keepers have suggested pine shaving are potentially harmful to snakes) Maybe I'm missing something here but I believe most snakes live on and in dirt and sandy soils.
How many colubrid keepers have proven facts or statistics comparing sand and wood chips or shavings, I am really interested in seeing or hearing for that matter, from keepers who have had problems with sand and not hear-say.
Anyway, View some of my tanks, check out my gallery at my
website.

http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html
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RBICHLER

What do you think about a product called Reptilite. It's a "calcium substrate" marketed by some company called Caribsea. I'd also be interested in your thoughts about the crushed walnut shell substrate that I mentioned in the post above yours.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

>>What do you think about a product called Reptilite. It's a "calcium substrate" marketed by some company called Caribsea. I'd also be interested in your thoughts about the crushed walnut shell substrate that I mentioned in the post above yours.
>>
Thanks Bill,
Bill;
This is only my opinion and of course hear-say
Calcium substrate;
I've never have used it, but understand that they can digest it, that its a form of calcium,it might be to absorbent,(maybe bad sheds).

Crushed walnut shell substrate;
I've never have used it, but I have heard both na and ya's about it. I wouldn't use it myself because it might swell if digested, and possibly to absorbent, again (maybe bad sheds).
I work construction, and the Three worst things to dry out my hands are working in dirt, wet concrete, and beleive it or not, handling lumber like 2by4s for a day or two. Just my opinion. Maybe we could here from some keepers who keep their snakes on wood substrate, about what kind of sheds their snakes have.
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RBICHLER

Thanks for those thoughts. I'm mostly worried about the ingestion issue.

I'll continue to have at least half of my tank filled about five or six inches deep with Eco Earth with Repti-bark and large coconut bark above and below. My kingsnake likes burrowing in this stuff, and it holds moisture very well. During his last shed, he retreated into the Eco Earth for about a week. He had come to the surface, so I handled him for a little bit. When I put him back in the aquarium, he immediately started shedding and had a great shed. With that success, I'll always provide him with a healthy volume of Eco Earth in which he can hide to get good humidity.

My thought about the crushed walnut and the calcium substrate was to provide another "hill" of a different substrate in which he can burrow if he wants a change of pace from the Eco Earth. I like giving him choices even if he always chooses to hide under his blue dog dish. In either case, I'd try to keep these substrates from getting too dry by misting them regularly.

Right now, I'm feeding him by leaving a mouse in the blue dish. He comes out from under the dish and eats the mouse where it sits. The mouse has only touched substrate once or twice in the almost five months that I've had him. One of those times was because I dangled the mouse beside the dish for him to strike instead of leaving the mouse in the dish. I'm not that worried about substrate, but if his eating a piece is likely to be a big problem, I may back off of these ideas.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

>>Thanks for those thoughts. I'm mostly worried about the ingestion issue.
>>
>>I'll continue to have at least half of my tank filled about five or six inches deep with Eco Earth with Repti-bark and large coconut bark above and below. My kingsnake likes burrowing in this stuff, and it holds moisture very well. During his last shed, he retreated into the Eco Earth for about a week. He had come to the surface, so I handled him for a little bit. When I put him back in the aquarium, he immediately started shedding and had a great shed. With that success, I'll always provide him with a healthy volume of Eco Earth in which he can hide to get good humidity.
>>
>>My thought about the crushed walnut and the calcium substrate was to provide another "hill" of a different substrate in which he can burrow if he wants a change of pace from the Eco Earth. I like giving him choices even if he always chooses to hide under his blue dog dish. In either case, I'd try to keep these substrates from getting too dry by misting them regularly.
>>
>>Right now, I'm feeding him by leaving a mouse in the blue dish. He comes out from under the dish and eats the mouse where it sits. The mouse has only touched substrate once or twice in the almost five months that I've had him. One of those times was because I dangled the mouse beside the dish for him to strike instead of leaving the mouse in the dish. I'm not that worried about substrate, but if his eating a piece is likely to be a big problem, I may back off of these ideas.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Bill
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>>It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

You will just have to be careful when feeding that he doesn't injest alot, or big substrate. Keep him happy and healthy.

http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html
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RBICHLER

I like that you bring a different point of view to the substrate subject.

Although I find sand to be heavy and a nuisance to use in a house on nice clean carpet, I've done some experimenting with it on kingsnakes and rosyboas. Overall, sand is the among the best material to heat with a substrate heater IMO. And curiously, kingsnakes that I thought would have shed problems didn't. Rosies thrived on it (no surprise there.)

And of course as usual, I relate the lower Baja rattler that has been housed in an acrylic aquarium for the last 23 years with nothing but sand and the snake in it.

I've also had a few snakes with problems that went away once I switched them from aspen to sand or other non-wood product - a grayband with runny nose and 2 different rosies that were regurging. I truly think that these individuals were sensitive to the aspen (or the conditions it created) because of their rapid turnaround once removed from the material.

>>I like that you bring a different point of view to the substrate subject.
>>
>>Although I find sand to be heavy and a nuisance to use in a house on nice clean carpet, I've done some experimenting with it on kingsnakes and rosyboas. Overall, sand is the among the best material to heat with a substrate heater IMO. And curiously, kingsnakes that I thought would have shed problems didn't. Rosies thrived on it (no surprise there.)
>>
>>And of course as usual, I relate the lower Baja rattler that has been housed in an acrylic aquarium for the last 23 years with nothing but sand and the snake in it.
>>
>>I've also had a few snakes with problems that went away once I switched them from aspen to sand or other non-wood product - a grayband with runny nose and 2 different rosies that were regurging. I truly think that these individuals were sensitive to the aspen (or the conditions it created) because of their rapid turnaround once removed from the material.

THANKS FOR THE REPLY; Thats really interesting, It's things like that people should be aware of. I've been housing about 20-25 adult colubrids on sand for the past 5yrs, I even use sand in my racks, and I haven't had one, sick or unhealthy. Is this a normal situation? Or am I just lucky? I don't know! Can we hear from some other snake keepers on heath and substrate please. And some statistics, or a average, even a guess, on how often snakes have respiratory problems? say 1 out of 20 has problems per year, or every 5 yrs. I'm really curious now.

Thanks again for your post;

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RBICHLER

h>>>>I like that you bring a different point of view to the substrate subject.
>>>>
>>>>Although I find sand to be heavy and a nuisance to use in a house on nice clean carpet, I've done some experimenting with it on kingsnakes and rosyboas. Overall, sand is the among the best material to heat with a substrate heater IMO. And curiously, kingsnakes that I thought would have shed problems didn't. Rosies thrived on it (no surprise there.)
>>>>
>>>>And of course as usual, I relate the lower Baja rattler that has been housed in an acrylic aquarium for the last 23 years with nothing but sand and the snake in it.
>>>>
>>>>I've also had a few snakes with problems that went away once I switched them from aspen to sand or other non-wood product - a grayband with runny nose and 2 different rosies that were regurging. I truly think that these individuals were sensitive to the aspen (or the conditions it created) because of their rapid turnaround once removed from the material.
>>
>> THANKS FOR THE REPLY; Thats really interesting, It's things like that people should be aware of. I've been housing about 20-25 adult colubrids on sand for the past 5yrs, I even use sand in my racks, and I haven't had one, sick or unhealthy. Is this a normal situation? Or am I just lucky? I don't know! Can we hear from some other snake keepers on heath and substrate please. And some statistics, or a average, even a guess, on how often snakes have respiratory problems? say 1 out of 20 has problems per year, or every 5 yrs. I'm really curious now.
>>
>>Thanks again for your post;
>>
>>
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RBICHLER

I have to say I totally agree with you about the sand. As well, I have had several problems with my kings on aspen or pine bedding. Especially if it has broken down into little bits - it seems to give my snakes allergies. I have now had three kings that, while on the aspen, with cage temps ranging from 70 - 81 degrees, get alot of mucus in their throat and noses. When I have switched them off of that to the turf, two days later they are fine.

>>I have to say I totally agree with you about the sand. As well, I have had several problems with my kings on aspen or pine bedding. Especially if it has broken down into little bits - it seems to give my snakes allergies. I have now had three kings that, while on the aspen, with cage temps ranging from 70 - 81 degrees, get alot of mucus in their throat and noses. When I have switched them off of that to the turf, two days later they are fine.

Now were getting somewhere, how many snakes were you careing for at the time? I'd like to see about ten more replies from more snake keepers please.
Thanks for the reply, here's a little eye candy.

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RBICHLER

I'm thinking about it for my holbrooki, and I keep glass lizards on it, they love to burrow in it. All my other snakes are on aspen, except my subocs, which are on native dirt and rock substrate. I have not noticed any illness, but it is kinda dry, except when they spill their waterbowls. Then it is a cause for concern, mold may form quickly, in my case.
Todd Hughes

>>I'm thinking about it for my holbrooki, and I keep glass lizards on it, they love to burrow in it. All my other snakes are on aspen, except my subocs, which are on native dirt and rock substrate. I have not noticed any illness, but it is kinda dry, except when they spill their waterbowls. Then it is a cause for concern, mold may form quickly, in my case.
>> Todd Hughes

Thanks for your reply,
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RBICHLER