Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,
This is my first post, so ill try not to ramble. Crap, too late.

Does anyone have any cave slamanders or cave salamander care sheets? Anyone know if there are going to be anyone selling such salamanders at the lancaster county reptile show?

Thanks,
Jeff
www.mirrormanproductions.com
jeffrey@mirrormanproductions.com

I really doubt you will find any pet shop or even reptile show that will be selling them, but then again I could be wrong. The only way I know of getting one would be to collect one from the wild. Look in, well, caves with heavy limestone deposites. As for captive care I would think it would be simmilar to any other Eurycea. I would say a 20 gallon long for one specimen. Have a well flowing water source with land areas covered with live moss. You can do this by sectioning off part of the tank with glass or plexi-glass "glued" into place. Then use large gravel and/or fine sand as a substrate. Make the water shallow, maybe no more than 5-6 inches at the deepest part. Use an internal filter or powerhead to make the water flowing, and it would be a good idea to put an airstone in there too. Food would be chopped earthworms, crikets, butterworms, waxworms, blackworms, and other small invertebrates. Keep the tank cool, 55-65 would be a good range and keep it dark also,this a cave dwelling creature. Go check out Caudata.org for more information there. I think if you follow those basic ideas you and your salamander will be just fine. By the way, what state do you live in?

Hey,
I live in delaware. I am new to salamanders and newts and i thought that the cave salamander looked interesting. I am currently in the process of what is apparently a big no-no in the herp world... combining species. I have a custom made tank that is going to be semi-aquatic and aboreal with tropical temperatures, humidity, and lighting. The tank itself could be called a 55 tall tank. I think from your description that maybe this species is not good for this setup. Any idea what slamanders or newts might be? In the tank will be (when it's ready);
3 long tail grass lizards
1 cuban brown anole
2 green tree frog
2 red eye tree frog
1 chubby frog (maybe)
2 house gecko
1 fan foot gecko

all these critters are in my current tank and will be transferred to the new one when its ready. Im looking to add a semi aquatic animal and an aquatic animal (like a semi-aquatic salamander and albino frogs or something)

Thanks,
Jeff

I repeat, I repeat,... do not mix different reptile and amphibian species!!! As you said, it is a no no. All those animals need to be in their own tank! Those temps. are way too high for any salamander or newt, they perfer it 50-65, 75 tops.Some amphbians have toxic liquids in the skin that can kill other amphibians or reptiles. I would talk to people in the other forums about your other species. I just do not think it is a good idea to mix those creatures. The chances of the transfer of parasites is very high if you mix species. I have been keeping amphibians and reptiles for years, and have never mixed species, and every time i hear or see the mixing of species, the animals are very sickly and are soon to die if not put in the proper set-up. Please seak information on your other species in the other forums, they are not my forte. If you are set on getting a salamander go to Caudata.org and check out their care sheets on Caudata culture. since you are a beginer, i would suggest salamanders such as the Spotted salamanders or Tiger salamanders. The Western newts are a good choice too. Just read up on them before you buy. If you want to order online, i would order from Gladesherps, or Reptile City, both normally have some different salamanders.Please contact me again on this forum and tell me how your animals are doing.

Hey,
What's really interesting is the split i keep finding on this topic. it seems that 75% of people say species should not be mixed ever. the rest say its ok only if its done intelligently. For instance, creatures that are the same size and cant eat each other. The creatures i have now have been togther for about 6 months and i have never had a problem, but that doesnt mean i wont have one tomorrow. To top it off, most of the plants in my terrarium are carniverous and i have to be carful to not add species of plants that are going to eat my herps. I seem to have found a nice balance. The new tank is 30 inches high, meaning the temperature at the top will be much higher than at the bottom. Maybe the temp will be low enough for a salamander species. either way, thanks for the help.

Jeff

To quote you: "Maybe the temp will be low enough for salamanders"...Have fun for the week your salamander survives the tropical temperatures and then dies...
~Mike

In other words.... find a different critter. Any suggestions? I dont want to use firebellie toads because in all my research i have found that they have one of the most toxic skin exreations out of any captive amphibian (apparently, only slightly less toxic than a cuban tree frog). However, i would like a semi-aquatic creature for my habitat. again, if im going to be hard headed and mix species, are there other that are safer than fire bellie frogs?

Thanks,
jeff

Depending on the species and thier requirements, some animals can be housed together however, your set-up is not made to do this and does not take a number of factors into account such as temperature and niche requirements. You have made the tank and now are trying to shoehorn animals in the percieved niches in the tank instead of choosing the animals ahead of time and creating the niches for those animals. For example you have basically a humid semitropical setup and are keeping a desert species in it (the fan footed gecko....)this is not responsible herpetoculture.

Using the fact that they have been okay for 6 months is pretty meaniningless when the life span of those animals can be a decade or more.

Before you proceed any further I suggest you peruse the following thread as there are multiple issues you have not taken into consideration.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4532&highlight=multispecies

Not to be insulting but you referenced "when done intelligently" and your setup does not do so otherwise you would not be making statements like "maybe the salamander will survive". You have created a set-up and are simply adding animals to it without regard for the animals' wellbeing....

I highly doubt that the temperature at the bottom of the enclosure will even be close to the proper temperature for the caudate and you will be simply dooming an animal to suffer a long and agonizing death for no real reason but that you want one to live in the water....

Ed

Hey,
Thanks for the site. it seems to be the same debate that is going on on different sites. 3 out of every four people who seem to have some experience are saying that mixing species under any circumstances is a bad idea. I think the reason my current tank works is because it is on the low end of humidity for a tropical environment and the high end for a dessert. Enough of a medium not to be too wet for my one dessert cirtter (the fan foot that i actually saved from a friend when it was sick) or too dry for my tropical beasts (everything else in there). Assuming i do not transfer the fan foot over to the new cage (which will almost certainly have a higher humidity) are the creatures in there now capatable with each other (assuming any animal is capatible with anything outside it's species)? The tank itself is 36L x 12W x 30T with both dry and wet caves, deeper substrate places for those things that like to burrow, places with a great deal of plants, and other with less, as well as places for basking and places of shade and everything in between.

Jeff

I truly hope you do not mix those species togather, you are asking for the death of many of your animals. For example, you said you have cuban treefrog(s)that you are going to put in the tank with others.What the hell are you thinking!!!!!

Cuban treefrogs are toxic!!!! I repeat toxic!!!

They produce a thick mucous from the skin that would kill the other creatures, even if they just rubed against one another!

Well it seems that you are going to ignore our advice, so go adhead and mix away!!! Then when you have many dead animals on your hands, you will think you should have listened.

You willsorry you did.