Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

Well, we just moved into our new house--While i was mowing the grass, i noticed a small snake for the second time in week. It was prob between 16-24 inches in length, pale, dark brown, with a sorta yellowish stripe down his back. Can anyone help with an ID?

Also, I would really like to catch one, and possibly keep it for a while. I know i could care for it, i already have a few herps. Do i just reach down and grab it?(though it's really fast) i'm sorry, but i'm new to snakes, and i just thought it would be cool to keep a native specie, from Indpls, IN.

Thanks for the advice,

Brandon

aww leave it in the wild where it belongs. wild-caught reptiles really dont make good pets. if you try to catch it, it will most likely bite or musk(release the contents of the cloaca on you).

i prob couldn't catch it, but i would still like an ID anyway

Brandon

I'm no pro but it sounds like a ribbon or garter. Do a google image search and see if you can spot it. I was told mine was a ribbon not a garter due to a "half moon" type shape in front of each eye

thats one way you can tell the other way(s) to tell the difference between a ribbon and a garter is..

ribbons are very long and slender with stripes on the 3rd and 4th rows

the black on thier bodies stops short of thier heads on the sides...and the upper and bottom lip are usually white..

lastly the western ribbon snake has a pair of fused spots on its head...a pattern no garter snake has (at least not that i have ever herd..but there are crossbreeds)

Most garters I have seen have the pair of sp[ots on the head, they aren't always as distinct onthem as the ribbons, but they have them too...

It's almost certainly a garter or ribbon snake. As for determining exact species/subspecies, that can be difficult as there often is considerable variation in overall coloration/ pattern, even among individuals of the same species (especially with the Eastern Garter snake). The only way to make a positive ID would be to catch one and check the scale location of the lateral (side) stripes just behind the neck. Count upward from the larger ventral (belly) scales. The possibilities, based on your location, are...

Eastern Garter snake (Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis) - stripe on scale rows 2 and 3.
Butler's Garter snake (T. butleri) - stripe on row 3 and adjacent halves of rows 2 and 4; small head, little or no wider than neck.
Northern Ribbon snake (T. sauritus septentrionalis) - stripe on rows 3 and 4; typically more slender and with more prominent stripes than the others.

I recommend catch/identify/release. IOW, don't bother keeping it. The other replies here adequately express the potential downsides. If you can and do manage to catch one, be prepared for the typical defensive tactics of biting and discharging a foul-smelling musk from the base of the tail. The teeth might break the skin and result in shallow, minor lacerations, but otherwise they're harmless. michaelb

Some of those big garters have a nice bite to 'em. Almost like small watersnakes that can hurt if you are not prepared or havn't experienced it before. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

Yes, they sure can. The ones described herein are only 16-24 inches, but the natural tendency to pull back upon being tagged (you going one way, the snake the other) makes those hooked teeth very effective at creating lacerations that can rival the worst paper cuts.

I should correct myself in saying that they're not venomous, but also not necessarily totally harmless. If any snake, even a garter, manages to break the skin, there is some risk of infection. Any such wound should be washed out asap with soap and water, and preferably some kind of antibacterial treatment.

And then there's the hognose snakes, which I always considered basically harmless, but have a somewhat different opinion after reading the related post on the Venomous forum. Seems their saliva is mildly toxic, and not necessarily only to toads.
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MichaelB

Technically they COULD be considered venomous. Then again, many colubrids could be. They do have rear "fangs" which you can see by letting them chew on your hand. And no, it doesn't take someone pulling away to cause a bloody bite. Natricines in general have trouble unlatching their teeth from your skin. This combined with their saliva, which acts as an anticoagulant in humans, causes more blood flow than say, a rat snake bite. A 2 ft ribbon snake bite bleeds more than any 5 ft. texas rat bite I have received. They anticoagulant can be felt, or at least I can feel it. It has a weak itching effect. And on the subject of hognose, take a look at some bite pics from the old forum and then tell me they aren't venomous.As for saliva, venom is modified saliva anyway. I have seen many toads hognose have coughed up after swallowing them about an hour later and the bites are pretty gruesome. They can be called venomous, just as well as Diadophis and Tantilla can be. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

its true...hognose snakes are mildly venomous but are harmless to man unless you happen to be allergic the the mild venom.

i have been bitten many times but i have never had any trouble..

also what further makes them marless to the extent of venomation is the fack that the rear fangs have troble reaching most ppls hand or foot(what ever was bitten due to the fact they are far back there and used to subdue frogs and toads as they go down and to start a predigestion)

but then again if you have never been bit..try to avoid it because if you are invenomated you dont know if you are or arent allergic

T. elegans species have toxins in their saliva (Garter Snakes: Evolution and Ecology, D. Rossman, page 95). They eat rodents in the wild and the toxins help sedate the rodents to make eating them easier. If I remember right, the toxins are produced in a gland called the Duvornoy's gland. I have been bitten by them on numerous times and it hasn't affected me tho. They also have been known to wrap a coil around them, I have seen this personally and its mentioned also on page 95 in the garter snake book.