Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Sorry about that --it was me. Pat Morris told me that, but it was a general statement about kingworms killing lizards -not monitors specifically. I shouldn't have generalized, but the information was frightened enough that I wouldn't feed em to my monitors. Pat was working with us at the Fort Worth Zoo as our Herp Vet on staff back then. I believe Dr. Morris has moved on to Chief- squamid/snake lizard Vet at the San Diego Zoo. Anyway, that's where that rubbish came from-- a generalization on my part. Sometimes I can get a bit too conservative--trying to stay on the safe side of things. I'll ask our current Vet to clarify and/or back it up with specifics. If anyone would like the info, let me know.

That a good dose of common sense could not cure. In reality, its not the superworms, but instead the keeper. The keeper must understand the capabilities of the individual thats being fed. If the individual is sick, compromised or not feeding, the keeper should not offer something the individual cannot kill. It doesn't matter if its crickets, mice, worms or rats. All those and more can cause harm.

Its up to the keeper to understand and control this. Its not up to what any Vet says. Of course a non feeding small lizard can be consumed by superworms. But that is not the point, common sense is. Just think about this, put a small lizard in a bag of superworms, what do you think will be there the next day?

Far better to teach the use of common sense. Cheers

Thanks -sounds like good advice.
One caveat, though. What I was told, was that superworms could be bitten or partially crushed and still survive for quite a while inside the stomach. Pat explained that lizard stomachs are mostly empty gasbags when empty, that is, they don't collapse as much as mammalian stomachs, and are only moist with acid and mucous till food is introduced. Superworms had been observed to bore holes, tearing at the lining of the stomach and mesentery, injuring the animal and sometimes causing its death.
I'm sure this does not happen often, but I respect the source of the information and consider it valid. I don't feed live rats to my monitors either. My animals could be injured and it promotes agression. Superworms really don't have good food value. Their high fat and sugar content makes them a "treat" for their predators. I count these as negative qualities and keep them off my "good food" list.
I really do value your input. Your advice is very sound and concise. Thanks

Many years ago this subject would come up. So I tried something. Take a superworm and drop it in water. Try it.

They die within a few seconds.

To chew out while in a stomach only means one thing. There is no digestive fluids being produced. Consider, healthy monitors normally digest entire whole food items very very quickly. This could not happen if they were lacking in digestive fluids.

Not to mention the fact that I have fed thousands upon thousands of superworms to hundreds upon hundreds of lizards. Without a single problem. But then, I am a keeper.

At times I had weak beardeds so I would cut superworms into pieces. I also would not feed large worms to very small lizards. Again common sense.

In practice, I would throw handfulls of worms into cages. Again, I have had problems. I did this for many years.

So considering my personal experience, I have to assume, that if someone did have problems. They must have had compromised or even dead lizards to start with. Or simply use poor judgement, like feeding very large worms to very small lizards.

It is common for superworms to burrow into dead mice or dead lizards. Thats what they do. Consider, when they burrow from the outside in, they provide a method to breathe. From the inside out, there is no oxygen, or at least there should not be.

Also consider, I have not fed superworms in years. As they did not add to the value of any of our diets. With that said, they did not subtract either.

Also consider, one problem with many diets is, lack of fat. Animals require fair amounts of fat to reproduce. As a matter of fact, fat is very important in producing mice. Low fat diets are usually very unsuccessful.

I feel insects such as crickets and superworms, are a great source of fat. Remember, our captives normally do not eat the types of foods we do, so the fear of fat is not appliable to them. Fat is a very important part of their diets. Cheers

I have had no problems, nor have the lizards. Sorry

damn you FR i was gonna say the thing about supers in water. i have trouble believing these stories as well. maybe if the lizard was really dehydrated or in a state of hibernation you may run into these problems

Frank, this may be a bit "off topic", but you have my sincere thanks for being one of perhaps eight people on this forum who doesn't misspell every third word.
Theer praktuce of cunstently failung to piy atyention to theer tiping makes a shrill noise in my head.
I don't think I deserve so much of your attention, but I appreciate it. Thanks for being here. Don't worry, I won't call you "King", but you're a great source.