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How the colors were made...by who?

sacredpurr Mar 07, 2006 08:43 AM

I am interested in the history of certain colors. How they were made and who made them:
Sunburst
Yellow Red Desert
Sundial Coral
Snow
Citrus
Flaming Tiger
Orange German Giant
What was bred together to make these colors, who made them, and what colors the best specimens looks like. Pictures would be nice. I think this would help a lot of us. All the different names is confusing. So how do we know what is what? Thanks Deb

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Kai- German Giant Male
Skyla- German Giant x German Giant Pastel Female
Voodoo- Yellow Red Desert Male
Banshee- Orange Sandfire Female
Puff- Citrus x Red/Orange Sandfire Male
Cera- Citrus x Sunburst Female
Jewel- Sundial Coral x Red/Gold Sandfire- Female
Ace- Orange Sandfire x Snow Male
Sunny- Sunrise x Red/Gold Sandfire Female
Stubbs- German Giant x German Giant Pastel- Male
Rainbow- German Giant x German Giant Pastel female
Velvet - Leopard Tortoise baby poss male
Marley- Sulcata Baby poss female
Sammy- Red Foot Female
Isis- Red Foot Female
Jade- Red Foot probable male
Runner- Basilisk Female
5.6 Ball Pythons
7.14 Manx Cats- Too many to name here
1.1 German Shepherds-Danzig & Onyx(due March 15th, 2006)
1.0 Hedgehog- White Wicca
0.1 Giant White New Zeland rescue Rabbit- Callie
2.2 Chinchilla's- Breezy, Stormy Nights, Mist, Black Velvet
0.1 Eastern Gray Squrriel- Paws
0.1 Ferret- Jumanji
1.1 Leopard Geckos(my daughter's)
Hermit crab(my daughter's)
Chaco Golden Knee Tarantula(my husband's)
Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula(my husband's)

Replies (4)

rick millspaugh Mar 09, 2006 12:34 PM

Nice looking group of Dragons! How the heck did you get them all to sit still long enough to get a picture?

It is my understanding that 99 percent of the colored dragons can be traced back to Sandfire. Bob imported a few dragons with more color than any of the others (long ago) that ultimately produced the Sandfire morph, lots of the dragons they produced (and still do) where not “classic” Sandfire but had a lot of color (reds, yellows, gold’s, etc.). Other breeders worked with these to develop the color even more like Kevin Dunn and his Bloodred morphs. Sandfire exported a great many Sandfire and high colored dragons to Europe too so many of the recent imports from Europe that have nice color can also be traced back to Sandfire. Ultimately, we all owe Sandfire for our colorful dragons.

All the names for colored dragons are arbitrary, that is why they are confusing. I’m sure there are some that will disagree, but for the most part, they are names a breeder made up to help set their colored dragon apart from the others. That does not mean the breeders have not put a great deal of effort into creating a certain look. A “Sunburst” is yellow dragon with orange highlights, a “sunrise” is a yellow dragon with orange highlights, a “yellow Sandfire” is a yellow dragon with orange highlights, a “citrus” is a yellow dragon with orange highlights; yes there are differences that each of the breeders can recognize but, well it all confuses me too. I know what I’m looking for when looking for a dragon and what people want to call it is not very important to me. There are a few mutations in the mix too like Hypo, tiger, translucent, etc. Certainly, someone can probably tell you whom the breeder was that made up the specific names. As to what was bred to create each names color, well that is arbitrary too. I’m sure someone can answer in more detail on the specifics of each morph/variety.

I can use our own project as an example. We started with a male from Sandfire, added a female from Dragon’s Den, mixed in some stock indirectly from Dachui lines (had other stuff mixed in) and a different female from Sandfire, etc. There’s even hypo in the woodpile. The babies range from buff yellow, bright yellow gold, orange, red, and the ones we are calling Rainbow (see rainbow pics below). The “Rainbows” are what we strive to produce. What is easier to say, Sandfire-Bloodred-Dachui line-Hypo mix or Rainbow? The fact is, you could go buy dragons from the same exact breeders and come up with different results. Every dragon is going to have differences (some obvious, some subtle), which will create a different look down the line. We as individuals will pick out certain features that someone else will not, thus even with getting clutch mates from the same mix of breeders we can all get different results. Also, we don’t want to inbreed, so we have to add new stock from another breeder anytime we keep one of our own to breed; this adds a different set of genes and can have a change in the results.

I just realized I didn’t really answer your question, but I hope I at least gave you something to think about.

“Rainbows”

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

sacredpurr Mar 09, 2006 08:05 PM

Wow Rick, Thank you for all the info. You did answer my question in many respects. I was about to give up getting a response. The morph and genetic forum is kinda slow. In regards to the name game, so if someone calls a yellow with orange dragon a sunburst, It is also a citrus, sunrise, ect? Because I have all of those yet they look different to some degree. I never would of guessed they are really the same color with just different breeders call names. Anyways, now I have what I was told is a Hypo x snow and I am confused. Hypo what? Is that a Leus, Pastel, something else? Anyways Your rainbow looks a lot like the boy I have below. The Hypo x snow dragon is on top of him. LOL I find it fasinating to read about how the colorful dragons came to be. My gang of dragons love to sit on my daughter so she climbed in the bath tub some if any wanted to take off they wouldn't get far so we culd get the shot. I have added three more dragons to the mix also so we will need a new shot!!! Thanks for your help. Deb

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Pyro- Red Flaming Tiger x Orange German Giant Male
Kai- German Giant Male
Skyla- German Giant x German Giant Pastel Female
Voodoo- Yellow Red Desert Male
Banshee- Orange Sandfire Female
Puff- Citrus x Red/Orange Sandfire Male
Cera- Citrus x Sunburst Female
Moon- Hypo x Snow Female
Jewel- Sundial Coral x Red/Gold Sandfire- Female
Ace- Orange Sandfire x Snow Male
Sunny- Sunrise x Red/Gold Sandfire Female
Spaz- Red/Gold Sandfire x Normal Male
Stubbs- German Giant x German Giant Pastel- Male
Rainbow- German Giant x German Giant Pastel female
Velvet - Leopard Tortoise baby poss male
Marley- Sulcata Baby poss female
Sammy- Red Foot Female
Isis- Red Foot Female
Jade- Red Foot probable male
Runner- Basilisk Female
5.6 Ball Pythons
7.14 Manx Cats- Too many to name here
1.1 German Shepherds-Danzig & Onyx(due March 15th, 2006)
1.0 Hedgehog- White Wicca
0.1 Giant White New Zeland rescue Rabbit- Callie
2.2 Chinchilla's- Breezy, Stormy Nights, Mist, Black Velvet
0.1 Eastern Gray Squrriel- Paws
0.1 Ferret- Jumanji
1.1 Leopard Geckos(my daughter's)
Hermit crabs(my daughter's)
Chaco Golden Knee Tarantula(my husband's)
Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula(my husband's)

rick millspaugh Mar 10, 2006 12:04 PM

I’m not saying someone “in the know” could not tell the difference between Sunburst, Citrus, Sunrise, etc. but the average person (me) can not tell the difference. Since there is variability in every clutch (if there is not they are too inbred), I also imagine there is some “overlap”, dragons that could go either way. At a basic level though, they are all yellow dragons with varying amounts of orange highlights. I really don’t devote much time to researching all the colors, hypos, snows, lucistic, probably differing degrees of the same thing but I really don’t know. I have seen a few high colored hypos that I like but I like them for their high color not for being hypo.

Yes, your dragon “Pyro” could have easily come from us (yes, I know he didn’t). Some of the dragons we produce look just like him. That is why all the names are so confusing; many of the different breeders produce dragons that all look alike (mostly). It is the ones at the extremes (like the red rainbow salsa in my post) that are somewhat different and are recognizable as a given “named” color. Here is a picture of one of ours from a few years ago that I think looks very close to yours (sorry the picture is dark).

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

duncangsi Mar 17, 2006 05:28 AM

Don't forget genetic traits.
This is something different then just color.
While a clutch of high colored dragon can vary in color, genetic hypo's always have a certain percentage of offspring wich carry the genetic trait, wether it's visible or not.

Translucents are genetic, Clearnailed hypo's are genetic.
Leucistics don't exist and are in fact clearnailed hypo's
Hypopastels are clearnailed hypo's too

I think you have to see the diference between colors, lines and genetic traits.
These are diferent things.
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edited sig file; oversized graphic [phw 12/13/04]

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