Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What happen to the price of Snow Honduran milks? I seems that they are a poor investment now when you cannot get $500 for a nice female snow. I know I'm not one of the big shot breeders but if the little guy cannot sell a snake then who will buy from the big breeders. Just wondering what has happened?

By no means am I an expert but here is my opinion...

The only problem with snows is that they generally carry the same look and are a simple double genetic morph. Cross a snow with a snow and you have more snows. There generally seems to be less focus on pattern quality and colours (tangerine/tricolor/pinstripe/reverse pattern ...) At least when you have a ghost or a tangerine albino you can very easily compare them and see which ones are higher quality.

'Tangerine' or pearl snows would definitely be worth more to me. Even better, pinstripe, vanishing, extreme snows... would hold incredible value when you consider the possibilites of their offspring.

It just seems that snows are not too much more uncommon than anerys or albinos anymore ... The higher market values will most likely go to the newer and more complex morphs as would be expected.

I will buy yours for five hundred right now! I doubt either of you even have a snow, or have even seen one in person, if you did you wouldn't talk crap about it. It's people like you all who try to set up the market for a downfall. The expos I go to still sell hypos for two to three hundred and there is no other morphs ever available. Their are different color phases of the snow, Mr. Dunham has descibed three. I think one idea is it depends on the amount of black tipping which removed from the albino trait creates yellow in its place over time.
Everyone wants Snows in their collection if they keep Hondurans, if you can't afford them go buy snow corns instead of bashing them!

I am not at all bashing snows and do infact own 5. In mine I see 2 distinct colour phases. Most have amazing yellow colour even at a young age while a couple are more 'normal' pink and white looking. I infact did pay FAR more than 500 for each of mine and do not regret it one bit. Do I expect to sell future snow offspring for the same price? No. However the snow genes are VERY usefull for a number of possible projects. To get an early start with these genes is well worth the original high price. To sell a simple snow for $1000-2000 1-2 years down the road is very unlikely. But why wouldn't you buy one for that price which is homo/het for other interesting genes?

I agree! It just there is NO reason for them to drop in price that much over such a short period of time. Other than certain breeders(I won't mention their names but they will always be none to me as the one who squashed the Snow Honduran) who freaked out because they didn't sell in a week, wanted something else bad.
They will go back up in value slightly when people cross them with bannana cal. kings to produce more aberrent/striped cross snows!

......with people crossing snow Hondurans with banana Cal kings to produce some aberrants? I would hope not. All they would be getting would be some intergeneric aberrant junk!!

Scott

If you have five Snow Hondurans than post some pics and show us your two distinct color phases!

They crashed last year. There were a number of posts on this topic at the time.

I think the ball python market took a big bite of of other reptiles markets, and this, in part, has caused snows to drop in value.

Although uncommon, snows are not as striking in appearance as some of the other morphs of Hondos (e.g. tangerine albinos) - especially as babies.

Over time I think people will selectively breed snows to bring out their pink and yellow colors. This may bring up their price somewhat.

Tim

I agree Tim, Balls took a lot of people from the honduran seen. But Balls are nothing compared to a Honduran and I bet in time after the glory of the ball craze slows (which won't be long) all those guys will wish they kept their hondos and will come back to them!

If ya can't afford'em buy something else!!
Dave

Maybe I missed something but the guy was saying that the price is too low. Not too high. So I don't think it's an affordability problem.
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Steve W.

.... on the other side! If you think this is bad just think of how many people refinanced their homes and stuff to get Balls only to realize they should have stuck with Hondurans!

so i would like to see prices go down further. i own and breed snakes for my own enjoyment not to make a boatload of money. i try to make enough money to cover how much ive spent and how much i am going to spend ON MORE SNAKES. its not an investment its a passion and anything else doesnt matter. each and every snake is beutiful to someone.
if you are into snakes purely as an investment then your in the wrong hobby. i see only 2 ways to make money at this hobby
1} have so many breeders producing that you have no other life outside of the snake room or
2} have enough start up money and connections to be one of the first producing "the new morph" prices will always drop after a few years, some dare i say fads last longer than others.
adam
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0.1.0 normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0.0 snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0.0 amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
0.0.2 snapping turtles
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons

Well ofcourse you would like to see prices go down further. Who wouldn't. But the fact is people paid hard earned money for Snows not to mention how much it took to originally create the morph. Just because you can't trade a bunch of brooski or corn snakes for them doesn't mean the price should drop.
You gotta come up wuith the jack!

i cant even afford a cornsnake with my heating bills right now. but i will get a ghost hondo and a extreme hypo when i hit the lottery(or in 2 years when their 20 bucks) ha ha jj
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0.1.0 normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0.0 snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0.0 amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
0.0.2 snapping turtles
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons

I am new to the hondo scene but here is my take....

I would'nt call it a crash, I think the market is just finding a new stable price and until it settles on one the prices will fluctuate. Something to consider is that when new morphs appear people who intend to breed will pay a higher price than people with no intent on breeding. The breeder buying phase has probably long since past and now people who just want one of these cool morphs as pets will set the new price.

Plus, 500 is still a lot of money for a snake when I am paying 300/month just to heat my house (in Conn.) and more than that on food for a month.

Best,
Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Like I said in my earlier post!
IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM GET SNOW CORNS!

Dave I started this forum to generate some talk on pricing. I do have a female that I hatched in 2005. I have tried to sell several times and nobody even responded to my ads. I would sell this female snow for $500. This female is not a picky eater or not feeding bua great little snake that eates prekilled mices and started eating ratpinks. I feel that just because I'm not a big shot breeder that nobody will even look. I have been in the reptile business for over 15 years most likely longer that most of you have been alive. Just my thoughts.

Alright, alright I made an ass of myself again. We all know what happens when you assume something.

Oya, how come there hasn't been a snow honduran advertised for about six months now. Are you sure your not just a little upset because you sold yours to cheap!

I have not put an ad on this site for a long time but one is running on faunaclassifieds.com. Take a look. I'm just wonder where you get the pictures of the snow you are posting?

My Snows are from the best line out there. I am not refering to the breeder who produced any of my stock because I have advertised enough for them in the past.
Thank you

Your selling yours for eight-fifty from an old January listing! If you really want to sell something your going to have to come up with a better advertising plan than that. And better pics too!

Please don't take this the wrong way, but your posts reek of immaturity and remind me of some schoolyard competition between who has the coolest toys. Why do you feel the need to act like this in your posts?

I am sure many agree here as well.

Take care!

Billy
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Genesis 1:1

I find them quite entertaining! Come on, lighten up..

I do find his posts entertaining as well. I just thought that his attitude towards pwmsnake, the originator of this thread, was a little demeaning and immature. His response to my post says enough.

But it is all good, and not worth making a big deal about it. Just throwing my two cents in.

Billy
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Genesis 1:1

I say what ever the @#$% I want to!!

I had a big angry post about this last year, and have had plenty of time to think about it. The funny thing is not very long after I wrote, ads for Snows gradually disappeared. That tells me the people who panicked sold thier snakes....and though this is ONLY A GUESS I still have to wonder if any of the people who held onto theirs got more money for them after it was looking like they went from being easy to find back to not readily available? I was offered a lame price for a nice Aberrant Ghost a few times and I held out and got what I felt was fair for it. I still have one, and I am not going to pawn it off for next too nothing. I'd rather keep it. Many of us breeders get frustrated when snakes we invested in, and waited a long time to produce are finally here and they do not sell right away. It is my opinion that snakes in general have waves of buyers scooping them up and times of stagnation when you can not give them away, but this goes for any and all snakes. I have seen some ads on the classifieds that have been up for months on end. High end and cheap stuff. That is just the way it goes...but for me personally....I keep my snakes until I get the price I expect for them. There are exceptions like discounts for repeat customers. But I feel lowering the price over and over shows people interested in them if they wait...they will get a high dollar snake at half of what it is worth,....and that is a bummer. Things to consider this time of year are the fact that many of us had to pay property tax, some are still broke from Xmas, and some people are waiting on tax returns to get some 05 snakes. I think Snows are awesome, and it is a shame what happened, but for all we know many newbies will find the realm of Honduran morphs something they wish to get into and we'll all still make a buck while we enjoy our snakes. Tom Stevens

I can afford them, but that was not the point. In reality there are likely very few people willing to pay that much for one even though some us can and do. Once the people who can afford the higher prices get all the snows the want the price will fall to the next level. I hope we are not there yet though, I wont produce any until next year.

by the way if you got em show em, best way to up the price is to market well,
vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

by the way if you got em show em, best way to up the price is to market well,
vinny
Well said, as I had mentioned this months back. Most pics we see are of hatchlings. Yes I realize most people buy the babies and not the adults but the adults are so much more impressive looking. I also know they're not the easiest snakes to photograph but maybe if more effort was made to promote/market them with pics that do them justice the crash may have not been so brutal. Tom Stevens

One breeder over produced last year and instead of holding on, decided to match the lowest asking price on the market at the time and it snow balled (no pun int!) from there.
As others have pointed out, every hondo keeper wants at least one snow in their colony and as far as I am concerned, demand still outways supply, out of America anyways...

The American market is somewhat saturated which suits me fine, 85% of my production goes overseas (The Japanese market is red hot!), most American hondo breeders cannot and/or will not export, the International market is very strong for top of the line hondurans and I've been tapping into it for years...

B_tch and complain all you want, I still get $1 500 US for my Snows and it suits me fine
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Marc Bouchard
Selectively Bred Serpents
www.selectively-bred-serpents.ca

(n/p)

How do you explain to a customer that see a snake for $500 that you just sold him for $1500? Just wondering...Competition always benefits the informed buyers...

Hey Mike, can we see another pic of your Extreme Ghost, to help boost morale a little!

Whom dictates the International market! Do you export Mike?
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Marc Bouchard
Selectively Bred Serpents
www.selectively-bred-serpents.ca

I have had people from Germany wanting to buy snakes but shipping and paper work made it to cumbersome. If you are able to ship and sell over seas that is great because most people are somewhat limited. The internet has almost turn it from an "international market" to a "global type market". Do you guarantee live arrivals on international shipments?
Dave I will get a post out soon. I enjoy your commentary..

Yes, animals are guaranteed but then again, I will only ship during spring and fall...
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Marc Bouchard
Selectively Bred Serpents
www.selectively-bred-serpents.ca

From the viewpoint of somebody who has recently gotten into breeding Milks and Kings, the Snows just arent that impressive to me at face value. I understand that their worth is, or was, determined by their rarity...and thats as should be. However, I wouldnt spend $250 for a snow, and greatly prefer Aberrant or other color morphs...seems like the snows have just had all of the color and interest bred right out of them!!

Your right they aren't the coolest morph but it is a double mutation, albino and anerytheristic combination. If they are droped to low the previous said mutants will lose value also. Therefor you would only need one male(snow) to produce anerys and albinos. Soon there will be a tripe homozygus snow (pearl) and with the addition of genetic aberrancies the sky is the limit!

Got it, I can see where the Double trait, Aneury and Albino, would be valuable; especially once it was first produced.

Like I said, I am a Newbie to this and only stating what looks good to me! Thanks for not beating up on me!!