Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey there I am having some trouble with the smallest of my russians....my vet isnt answering the phone (for the past 2 days ..) her eyes ae shut all the time and she isnt eating I have soaked her and she still doesnt open them even while being soaked. she is pooping and has urates in it looks normal ,she isnt bubbling at the nose or mouth ...when she was eating(2 days ago) It was dandilion greens and romaine.her temps are 94-120 on the warm side and 74-71 on the cool side humidity id 45% on the cool side and 25% on the warm she has a 5.0 uv strip an a reg I am using bed-a-beast and topsoil mixed for subsrate and she has water all over the encosure- I have about 3 bowls at diff places just in case. I have heard that using eye drops for pple are ok to use is that true? or should I get the petstore kind? should i change anything in the tank to see if that helps? more soaks ?
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~~*Erica*~~
1 puppy-cocoa
1 cat-Livvie
1 chinchilla-Lilo
3 Russian tortoises-baby,Calvin$Hobbs
1 Home's hingeback-Elephant
5 lil monkeys Jake,Matt,Amber rose,Zach,Kaitlin Grace
oh yeah and my husband Dave :0)
and too many fish aquariums to count

Maybe you should just take it easy and wait to see the vet. If the vet has tortoise experience he/she will know what to do. Jumping to a diagnosis and treatment of your own could definitely make things worse.

I'd make sure the temps don't get over 100 on the hot side. A range of 94-120 indicates things aren't under control. If the baby stays on the 120 side too long it could get seriously over-stressed. With so little body mass a hatchling can be overwhelmed by temperature extremes.

And just one bowl of water is fine.

It's better to relax and not over-manage the situation. Get the temps down on the hot side, and wait for the vet.

ok,but how long can a little tort go w out eating? i am not sure why the vet isnt answering I am hoping they didnt go on vacation or somthing they are the only vet around here that will take a tort. could the eye thing be because the temps were too high? I am hoping its somthing I can fix with the environment and not with meds ..but I dont want to make it suffer till I can get to a vet if he wont be back soon ya know? Ill wait a few more days then maybe try the eye drops if I cant get a vet..do you think she isnt eating because she cant see?
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~~*Erica*~~
1 puppy-cocoa
1 cat-Livvie
1 chinchilla-Lilo
3 Russian tortoises-baby,Calvin$Hobbs
1 Home's hingeback-Elephant
5 lil monkeys Jake,Matt,Amber rose,Zach,Kaitlin Grace
oh yeah and my husband Dave :0)
and too many fish aquariums to count

There are two common reasons for why a turtle or tortoise's eyes will close up and they can't open them. One is simple the other is very complex.
The simple reason is lack of humidity and that can easily be corrected, just raise the humidity.

The more complex reason has to do with certain vitamins lacking in the diet, and when not treated by a vet the problem can spiral down into a pneumonia type problem.
When this is the problem they really do need medical treatment because it involves prescription medications and depending on the severity other treatment may have to be done. For example if the ears get infected it takes a minor surgical procedure to correct that.
When the more complex reason for this is the problem when it's treated in time then they generally respond very well to the medical treatment. They get over it then live a normal life as long as the diet remains corrected.
You have to keep in mind though that if this is caused by a lack of some vitamins then it takes a long time for them to show you these symptoms. It also take a long time for them to get over it, but they can and do get over it.

It's true they won't eat when they can't see the food. If they don't feel well they won't eat the food either.
Keep trying the vet and if those eyes don't open soon, try to get to the vet as soon as you can.
Good luck!
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PHRatz

ok so,I have been reading alot of sites and some say yes russians need humidity and some say its not good for them what does everyone here think? how much if you think they need it. right now my tort is in a huge drawer that used to be a Armiour(spelling?) anyhoo I am not sure how to keep the humidity up I spray it every A.M and then by say 1 ish it has dried up even with bedabeast mix I could try A humid hide but this tort doesnt seem to like to hide he sleeps right out in the open .what kind of vitamins could it be lacking? A? I have only had her 2 weeks and I have no clue how old she is the store said 6 weeks but someone said she looks too big for that she is about the size of a small kiwi now I am scared :0( the stoe I bought her from had a vets certificate signed saying she had been seen by thier vet and was healthy ..what should I do for her till I can do the vet thing?
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~~*Erica*~~
1 puppy-cocoa
1 cat-Livvie
1 chinchilla-Lilo
3 Russian tortoises-baby,Calvin$Hobbs
1 Home's hingeback-Elephant
5 lil monkeys Jake,Matt,Amber rose,Zach,Kaitlin Grace
oh yeah and my husband Dave :0)
and too many fish aquariums to count

If I was you I would be very careful in terms of a vit. A shot. People have lost their tortoises over unnecessary vit. A shots, as vit. A is one of the ones that are toxic when overdosed.
Many vets that are not very experienced with tortoises seem to suggest a vit. A shot as a 'cure all'. But it should only be given when a test shows, that a vit. A deficiency is actually present.
In any other case the suggested carrots and dark greens will take care of the vit. A needs of a little tortoise.

Good luck with your baby,
Gaby

I agree with the above post. Lack of Vitamin A only affects the retina (the back of the eye). It has no relationship to keeping eys closed or eye discharge. I'm a physician and people who go blind from lack of Vitamin A still have normal appearing eyes and eylids.

is it possible the eye problem is just a eye problem and not vitamins? It could be somthing simple right? or does the eye closed thing always mean a vit problem? I just spent $ at the vet last month $230 on 3 healthy torts ! I am dreading the bill from this one my husband thinks the torts are more expensive than out children and I think he may just be right! lol but they are my babies as well so the sooner I get Baby healthy the better
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~~*Erica*~~
1 puppy-cocoa
1 cat-Livvie
1 chinchilla-Lilo
3 Russian tortoises-baby,Calvin & Hobbs
1 Home's hingeback-Elephant
5 lil monkeys Jake,Matt,Amber rose,Zach,Kaitlin Grace
oh yeah and my husband Dave :0)
and 3 fish aquariums

In animals, and most commonly reptiles and birds, Vitamin A is associated with the production of normal epithelium (the outer cell lining of skin, the respiratory tract, eyes, ears, etc). When animals are deficient in vitamin A, they undergo what is called squamous metaplasia, or in english- their epithelium develops incorrectly. This commonly leads to dry, flakey skin, eye infections, respiratory infections, ear infections, etc. You can treat these infections all you want with antibiotics, but unless you correct the underlying problem (lack of vitamin A), they will keep coming back. Unfortunately there is no test available for vitamin A deficiency, so a diagnosis is usually made based on clinical signs and dietary history. The concern with vitamin A injections is that if overdosed, there is no reversal agent. It is a fat soluble vitamin and is stored within the animals fat stores- so make sure your vet is experienced with reptiles. If signs are mild, dietary modification alone is usually sufficient. If signs are severe, such as this case might suggest, a vitamin A injection is usually quite beneficial but must be followed by diet changes as well.

There are also several other potential causes for your turtles eye problems, but your vet needs to do a physical exam and get a good history from you.

And DrTom- I'm sure you're an excellent physician and please don't be offended, but don't try to make recommendations about animals if you haven't been properly educated on them.

Good luck!

Steve

>>If I was you I would be very careful in terms of a vit. A shot. People have lost their tortoises over unnecessary vit. A shots, as vit. A is one of the ones that are toxic when overdosed.
>>Many vets that are not very experienced with tortoises seem to suggest a vit. A shot as a 'cure all'. But it should only be given when a test shows, that a vit. A deficiency is actually present.
>>In any other case the suggested carrots and dark greens will take care of the vit. A needs of a little tortoise.
>>
>>Good luck with your baby,
>>Gaby

That's why I was at first reluctant to say specifically that it may be a vitamin A problem. I am loathe to mention it because of the worthless pet store turtle vitamin A drops that may cause more harm than good and because of the horror stories I've heard about inexperienced herp vets using the injections too soon.

Vitamin A injections tend to be more successful when used in turtles than in tortoises. Even if a vet injects it, in tortoises it can cause terrible problems.

I've seen them do well when a vet was able to get those eyes to open so that they can see to eat. If you can just get them open & then they are fed foods that are naturally high in vitamin A then that's often the best way to treat a vitamin A deficiency- the natural way.
This is why I said in the first place that when it's a nutritional problem, it's a complex problem.
I just hope your vet gets home soon. :-x
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PHRatz

no news on the vet front yet but Baby did eat this A.M I am excited! she had a few bites of dandilion greens and a few bites of timothy hay- she drank alot as well when I soaked her.Her eyes are open in little slits here and there and she is rubbing them alot so I am hoping it is just a simple eye infection.when she was eating before the eyes shut it was mostly hay, romaine and dandilion greens I did give her carrots but I have no clue if she ate them or not I didnt think much of it until this started .
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~~*Erica*~~
1 puppy-cocoa
1 cat-Livvie
1 chinchilla-Lilo
3 Russian tortoises-baby,Calvin & Hobbs
1 Home's hingeback-Elephant
5 lil monkeys Jake,Matt,Amber rose,Zach,Kaitlin Grace
oh yeah and my husband Dave :0)
and 3 fish aquariums

Eating a little is a good sign! I hope things continue to go better for her. Keep us updated.
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PHRatz

I FINALLY got ahold of someone at the vets office the dr will be back on tues so I have a appt then ..few more days.. I hope she will be ok that long I didnt see her eat this am but I was in a hurry and couldnt watch her. we will see
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~~*Erica*~~
1 puppy-cocoa
1 cat-Livvie
1 chinchilla-Lilo
3 Russian tortoises-baby,Calvin & Hobbs
1 Home's hingeback-Elephant
5 lil monkeys Jake,Matt,Amber rose,Zach,Kaitlin Grace
oh yeah and my husband Dave :0)
and 3 fish aquariums

Great! Glad to hear you finally raised someone at the vet's.
I hope she does ok this weekend while you wait.
Please let us know how it goes with the vet.
Good luck!
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PHRatz