Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ever since Mike posted his agalma pictures below, I've been thinking how nice a third snake would be to go with my California Kingsnake and my ball python. Of course, a place to put a third snake would be nice as well, but I could make something happen if I really set my mind to it. The agalma pictures made me think how much I like the looks of several of the mountain kingsnakes, and I've had an interest in the thayeri since I first saw them here in the forums.

Without further preamble, what would be the strengths and weaknesses of each of the following three snakes as my third snake? The choices are:

1. Thayeri,
2. Agalma, and
3. Knoblochi.
(4. The mystery wildcard option might be a Mexican milksnake.)

The important factors to consider are that I still have only five months husbandry experience and I'm not ready to breed anything yet. From my comments on these boards, many of you probably have a rough idea what my skill level is. Are there any of these that would be particularly good or particularly bad for me? Where is the best place to find husbandry information that is specific to these species? Are there any of these that would more or less likely to spend all of their time underground in the substrate or in a hide? While I like letting them indulge their natural hiding behavior, a beautiful snake that spent some time where I could see him would be nice. If I were to get a pair someday and start breeding, would any of these be easier or harder to place in good homes?

There's a place called LM Digital that is selling a book on the zonata kingsnakes. Have any of your read it? (Did any of you write it?) Can any of your recommend it? Maybe just reading the book will quench my desire to own another snake.

Thanks as always,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

I would say aglama. Others will recommend tharyi. But for your experience level,.. a hardier captive like the mexican milk (annulata) would be a good 3rd option.

Oops. I actually meant 4th snake option for the anulatta.

Anyway here are some pics of baby knobs I took 2 years ago. They were good mouse feeders. I still prefer the agalma but the knobs are on par but are more common in the hobby today.

Thanks, the agalma is what I wanted to hear because I like the pictures that I've seen so far. I'm very taken with this snake. I'll give it some time to ensure that I'm not just temporarily infatuated. I also like your knoblochi very much.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Okay. So now that you have decided that the agalma is what you really wanT. Do yourself a huge favor and get the book by Brian Hubbs. It is not just a book about mountain kingsnakes. It is a fabulous book with stories and all the unique writings from the author that resmble the old Carl Kaufeld books.

Yes the book is pricey ($40-$50) but worth every penny and more. Get it before you get the snake. It will make you appreciate it that much more.

I'll look for the book. I've seen it online, but I may check through other places. I have a discount card at Books-A-Million (and own some of their stock). I also have a friend who works for a public library. She's offered to get me an occasional book at the library price, and something like this might appear academic enough that she wouldn't feel uncomfortable making the order.

I'll probably also order the other zonata book that I mentioned in the first post.

I'm likely going to the reptile show in New Orleans in a few weeks, and I may find both of them there.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

You can contact the author Brian Hubbs at this link:

http://fieldherpforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3126&sid=1d50624653a2c78bd97c5517465df495

np
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

I ordered the book today. I look forward to seeing it.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

I agree with Bluerosy inasmuch as they are easily maintained and a beautiful snake. No complaints on any of your choices, but get more practice with the Mexmilk! I own them and Thayeri, but no mountainkings......YET!!!
Todd Hughes

Thanks, I was thinking that the milksnake would be the best "entry level" snake of the ones that I listed. I've handled one Mexican milksnake about five years ago. I liked him, but Mexican milksnakes don't make my heart go pitter pat as some of these others do. I'm also certain that I'll never have the collections that many of the rest of you have. If I'm going to stay small, I'd like to be very selective. The nice thing is that the Mexican milksnake should be fairly common in the trade and easy to acquire. Because they are fairly small, I might get away with a smaller cage and be able to find a place for one more easily.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Well there are some really aewsome spotted Mexmilks out there. They make MY heart go pitty pat!
Todd Hughes

I've never heard of a spotted milksnake. Are the spots incorporated into the regular pattern that I'd recognize or do they make the snake have a completely different appearance. I tend to favor very normal forms over the morphs except in species like Thayeri where "normal" is hard to define.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Check the archives in the milksnake forum. I'm thinking that they are selectively bred for spots, but it may be a natural occuring form, like albinism, albeit rare. Mine has a nice abbreant butterfly!
Todd Hughes

I noticed the butterfly on your Mexmilk. That's a neat marking, but I like the fact that he otherwise looks "factory spec" for the species. I'll have to look at the spotted ones sometime, but if I were getting one, I'd get a more normal phase.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Don't get me wrong, I am a locality freak and love the wild look but abberencies are found in nature and the factory look is hard to find in nature some times. Those spotted milks are factory made now, lol! They are beautiful and so are some of the morphs these guys come up with, but 99% of my collection are w.c. individuals that are classic for the wild look. I love 'em! This is a w.c.
Todd Hughes

The only one on your list I have experience with is Mexican Milks (anulatta) I do have a Thayeri on order, so I'll soon have two of the species on your list.
My Mexican Milk pretty active, and is out in the open quite a bit, so that would be a bonus for you from what you said.
Their very aggressive rodent feeders, even as babies. I belive they are one of the calmer milk species, and they reach a nice small size of around 24-32 inchs. Picture below is my 05 male.
Steve

>>Without further preamble, what would be the strengths and weaknesses of each of the following three snakes as my third snake? The choices are:

1. Thayeri,
2. Agalma, and
3. Knoblochi.
(4. The mystery wildcard option might be a Mexican milksnake.)

Thats a great looking snake . I looked into them last year and thought hide lots babies could be tricky feeders so opted for an Albino Ruthven and glad I did great snake but still considering the Mex milk as love their look.

From what you read,heard would you say yours is rare in that out here and there and great feeder ?
I ask because I thought the oppossite . I love "smallish" colorful kings,milks not to many under 3 feet.

Thanks

Snakes are individuals. Some Mexican Milks may be less active then others. Some are more calm then others. But, from my experience, all the Mexican Milks I've owned & worked with have been calm, and very aggressive feeders.

Steve

>>Thats a great looking snake . I looked into them last year and thought hide lots babies could be tricky feeders so opted for an Albino Ruthven and glad I did great snake but still considering the Mex milk as love their look.

From what you read,heard would you say yours is rare in that out here and there and great feeder ?
I ask because I thought the oppossite . I love "smallish" colorful kings,milks not to many under 3 feet.

Posted by: Steve_Craig at Wed Mar 8 17:09:13 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Snakes are individuals. Some Mexican Milks may be less active then others. Some are more calm then others. But, from my experience, all the Mexican Milks I've owned & worked with have been calm, and very aggressive feeders.

Steve

Okay thanks for the info. I had no idea so calm and most easy feeders. I looked last summer on 2 sites both said can be difficult and again got a Ruthven which I am very glad I did but as he now is in the 20 gallon tank think the 10 will be a for Mex milk.
I am glad yours have been good feeders as difficult feeders would give me a nervous breakdown heehee.

Thanks

Thanks, you make a good case for the Mexican milksnake. From what I'm hearing, most kingsnake keepers have tried this species with good success. I have to admit that I'm not as excited by these as I am by the others, but the pretty milksnake that I see could be more fun that the prettier kingsnake that I never see. If I could keep this guy in a small aquarium and he'd be out enough to be a good display, I might keep him in the living room. That option would expand the amount of space that I have available for snakes.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Yes, get the book. It has nice pics of habitat and some good info. Also check out "Mountain Kingsnakes" by Brian Hubbs. That book has so much info that you will read it 3 times just to absorb it all.

All are nice snakes. The thayeri and knoblochi are relatively easy to maintain. So are agalma but they are not as easy to find for sale on the web usually, and agalma may be a little more sensitive to improper cage conditions.

All of the above kings do not need high temps at all and in fact do better when kept at room temp with a small basking area that gets to about 82-84 deg F. They are calm snakes as well, a real pleasure to hold.

They eat well but are not as aggressive as Cal kings typically. In the case of agalma and knoblochi, they may go off feed in Summer and not feed again until the next Spring. I have found that a moist hide is good for these snakes, especially babies and helps to get babies feeding.

Annulata are great and are very adaptable to almost any cage condition. Mine stayed buried out of site most of the time and would come out at dusk or evening usually. For a milksnake, they are rather calm, but more squirmy than the mountain kings mentioned above. Babies can be real squirmy; adults are much less so. A great snake. Real easy, and real small. A 10 gal tank does it.

The easy part is deciding to buy a book. I'm a couple of thousand pages behind in my reading right now, but I'm always looking for new books. A less expensive book like the Zonata book is an easy decision. If I remember correctly, I saw Mountain Kingsnakes advertised, and it was pretty expensive. I'll probably wait until I've caught up a little to think about that one.

If I'm understanding you correctly, any of these would probably do reasonably well for me. The agalma might stretch my skill more than the others, but I should be successful with any of them. The mountain kingsnakes going off feed for eight months would be stressful for me. I'll have to give that factor some serious thought.

The milksnake coming out in the evenings would be fine for me. I'm only home in the evenings. Otherwise, there's no one around to see him.

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.