Reptile & Amphibian Forums

it looks like it lacks yellow because when bred to an albino the offspring are red and white, so if you bred that to an anery it would lack red too, it would be an even whiter blizzard. maybe "z morph" can be renamed super charcoal and then make super blizzards. to the owner of this morph: next time you breed a "z" you should breed it to a snow.
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jake

my addiction:
2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
1 amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)

Rich Z was the first to hatch this morph, I really don't have much data on if any of his holdbacks have yellow pigment or not.
Keep in mind only one amel "Z" exists. Just because this one animal so far has no yellow pigment does not mean that this is a trait of morph "Z". Perhaps with more outcrossing the yellow will creep in. None of the Z's in my collection have developed yellow pigment, however, most of the genotypically "normal" offspring from this project aslo lack yellow. In fact only one of my "normal" animals from this line has yellow. So the fact that this little amel lacks it could just be a line bred factor and not a factor of the new gene.
Charcoals were once believed to lack yellow pigment, but it turned out it was just a characteristic of the founding animals. Once outcrossed into other lines the yellow started to creep in.
I'm not so sure "Super Charcoal" would be a great name for morph that causes most of it's homozygous animals to end up with Burgundy saddles. It's just too early to jump on the naming boat, we need a bigger pool of adult Z's to try and find something that fits to the majority of them. If we try and descriptively name them now, the look make change when outcrossed and we will be stuck with a fairly inacurate label. Another good option would be to name them with a non-descriptive name. Only time will tell what we will come up with and what the market will accept.
Here is a pic of the only animal from the line with yellow. She is possible het for Z and those eggs will give her away in about 7 weeks. Wouldn't it be a whole different can of worms if the only animal with yellow proved to be the only animal that is not het? Fun stuff!

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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

Oh, she's pretty! I really like the new "Zs" but even if she's not het, I think she's gorgeous!

I'd love to have one like that in my collection.

Leslie

>I'm not so sure "Super Charcoal" would be a great name for morph that causes most of it's homozygous animals to end up with Burgundy saddles. It's just too early to jump on the naming boat, we need a bigger pool of adult Z's to try and find something that fits to the majority of them.

I think that "Super Charcoal" would be a very poor name, just as poor as "anery c". On the other hand, if the homozygous animals do end up with burgundy saddles, and that holds up in future breedings, then "burgundy" would be a good name. It's something to keep in mind for down the line.

Paul Hollander

Wouldn't a "Super Charcoal" be a "Diamond"?

Just thinking out loud.
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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

Actually I think Mahogany was thrown around, but not all of them do turn that way. It seems most of them turn out to have saddles that are burgundy/mahogany, but some of them just have that color at the base of the saddle scales. Almost like a Biard's Rat Snake except that it is only in the the saddle scales that this occurs. I'm still not sure if another gene is involved with the types that just get it as the base as opposed to the ones that end up with completely burgundy saddles. Only time and breeding trails will tell.
Perhaps a name that just describes "change" would be best, because they all hatch out looking like weird ghosts and then change drastically as they get older. "Meta" Morph, or "Blushing" corn, etc... But those both sound pretty corny to me.
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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

I'd suggest 'ghostrock' as a name, but I don't think anybody would get the reference. Plus it's too close to 'ghost' anyway.

Ooh wait... how about Vampire corns? After all, some do turn reddish.

-Kat
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This Space For Rent

>>I'd suggest 'ghostrock' as a name, but I don't think anybody would get the reference. Plus it's too close to 'ghost' anyway.
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>>Ooh wait... how about Vampire corns? After all, some do turn reddish.
>>
>>-Kat
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I like Vampire but I'm afarid that could create a problem.

I could see every other post refering to their corn snake that "sucks"....lol....could get ugly.
just kidding....
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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some of the ghosts? turn reddish?

that's it....they look pewterish to me........

that second pic with the tight pattern reminds me of caramel....

and that candycane frosted reminds me of an ultracandy.......

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....................anyways.......
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you think????

Guess I need to be more clear with my pronouns. Some of the 'Z' morph turn reddish in the saddles.

-Kat
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This Space For Rent

not cutting or foul.....I know what you meant..

I just thought the ghost z looked pewter-ish to me

you said some turn reddish

pewter is blood x so makes sence they look the same....faded pattern red tint and faded color........like pewters...maybe same thing but maybe not even made with blood....

.......don't know...don't matter........balls pay better for me now.LOL...........sorrrrryy.....
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you think????

>>Perhaps a name that just describes "change" would be best, because they all hatch out looking like weird ghosts and then change drastically as they get older. "Meta" Morph, or "Blushing" corn, etc...

"But those both sound pretty corny to me. "

Isn't that the whole idea?.....LOL
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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a corny name for a corn. Whats wrong with that?
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**********Misty**********
I haven't lost my mind.... it's backed up on disk somewhere.

2.3.0 bearded dragons
0.1.0 water dragon
1.3.0 leopard geckos
12.20.0 corn snakes
1.1.0 jungle corns
2.2.0 king snakes
1.1.0 false water cobras
1.1.0 royal (Ball) pythons
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa
1.0.0 Sinaloan milk snake
0.1.0 Tri-Hybrid milk snake
0.1.0 rat snake
0.0.2 prairie ringneck snakes
0.1.0 chilean rose hair tarantula
1.1.0 emperor scorpions
1.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrots
0.1.0 German Shepherd hybrid dog

.......pics?........

Z as in Z uchowski?

maybe an ultra-anery?

.......I am so lost.........

I need an atlas.....................
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you think????

I'm no expert on them, but my understanding of the morph is as follows:

Anery Z is a misnomer, as while they start off looking Anery, they get burgundy saddles as they mature. Oftentimes they will have more and smaller saddles than most cornsnakes.

'Anery Z' is a new simple recessive gene which is unrelated to Anery A or B.

They are not ultra-anerys at all.
-Kat
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This Space For Rent

Rich was the first to hatch them, I was lucky enough to get a het female on accident and recovered it in F2. For some reason some of the ones in my collection have also popped up with a really weird pattern to them. From what I have observed in my collection the pattern also effects the color of them. The strange thing is that the pattern only shows up in the Z animals and not their normal clutchmates.
Here are some pics of a hatchling and 2 year old Z with the strange pattern. The 2 year old looked exactly the same as the hatchling in the pic when he was the same age. Followed by an Amel "Z" with the strange pattern. I'll have to take some pics of the Z's with normal pattern, they are already promising to be much more colorful, even though they are only 05's.

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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

NICE HYBRIDS.

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Your Avin A Laugh Arnt Ya

Why do you think that the "Z"'s are hybrids. I would like to here your reason to explain this.
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Cameron

>>you really want to jump in and make a fool of yourself again?

What happened to your "e-mails" from the pied side thread?
Found out you were completely wrong and didn't know how to respond did you?
well, guess what...you are wrong again!!!
At least you are consistant, I will give you that.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

I now have an opinion on them.......

..........( ...)
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you think????

Me too...I have no doubt what those animals are.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Well, I can't tell what anyone is thinking but....
The founding animals from my line come from Rich Z and Don S. Rich's do not have the same strange pattern mine do, an the only outcrossing that has been done is into a Hypo Miami from SMR. Keep in mind only the homozygous animals have this strange pattern and all the full siblings have completely normal corn markings. Also depending on which hets I pair together either all or none of the homozygous "Z" animals have this pattern. So far the pattern is behaving like a simple recessive that is linked to Z somehow, but it is too early to tell.
I'll be the first to admit they look a lot like emoryis, and like I've heard it put very well before, I'm not "allergic" to the idea that they may be. However, when you put the peices together that option just doesn't make sense.
1. Both founding animals came from reputable sources.
2. None of the parents show anything like this patterning. Think of creamsicles for example, they are a known cross and we've never seen patterning such as this in creams, even those with high concentration of emoryi blood. As they get outcrossed, they look more and more like corns. Why, if mine had emoryi blood, would they look more and more emoryi like the more I outcrossed? It's been shown it just doesn't work that way.
3. When this pattern occurs in a clutch, it is an all or nothing trait. Hatchlings have either normal pattern or this really strange pattern, no inbetween. You don't get such cut and dry differences when you are dealing with a clutch of hybrids or intergrades. Also the fact that it only occurs is homozygous Z animals makes me think it could be a gene that has been present in corns all along and just doesn't "activate" without the other gene's presence. Then again, this is such a small pool of animals it could be complete coincidence.
4. My F1 stock has the most brilliantly red coloration you have ever seen on a corn. I've never seen anything close to red come out of emoryi cross animals, even when outcrossed several generations. So if they are crosses, and they have just been outcrossed many generations to regain that red coloration, how in the heck would I recover that pattern so cleanly when it has done nothing but dilute in the past?
5. Z animals have been tested against Charcoal and Anery A and normals hatchlings resulted. It is also proven to be simple recessive (the coloration, not the pattern). It's a new gene and I can't think of any other ratsnake that has a simple recessive gene that behaves the same. Grey hatchings change with age and either end up with burgundy saddles or grey saddles with a burgundy base. Not to often is "hybrid" a simple recessive trait.

I'll have to get some pics of some "normal" Z's and the normal non-homozygous siblings. The look is pure corn. I don't mind that people think that. I am still amazed at the similarities and have thought about it very much with a very open mind. However, it just doesn't make sense and the history of the animals can be traced back quite awhile.

If you ask me "Ultra" has a much stronger case for originating in a Hybrid and has a very shady past, but for some reason everyone wants to sweep that one under the rug. *shrug*

Here is a picture of the mother that produced the two younger animals pictured in the previous post. Ever see a Root Beer that red?

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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

nice snake.........you want to know where I saw red and grey like that? only with black borders too...really nice animals......the origional aztecs......they were cool...........red and grey and black...dark thick black on some of them........they came from miami and amel lines too(with others in it???)......

............like I said......don't matter..nice snakes.........

and balls pay me better,.,,,,,,,,,

......red saddled pastel....super pastel........hhhhmmmmmmmm.........bunblebee with red.......ok..not gonna happen.........
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you think????

I guess I would brave into balls if there was some sort of "key" to help me decode all those special names! Corns boggle my mind enough!

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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

Just to be clear, I have no reason at all to doubt you, Carol. Thanks for sharing the portions you know about the project!
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

No problem. The first thing I said when the first "aberrant pattern" one hatched here is "Its a little emoryi". So I honestly don't mind people suggesting it. That was before Rich had let us know he had the new gene and wouldn't you know it, the founding female I got from him came from the same lines. I just thought I'd share my ponderings on the subject.
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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

If you don't mind me asking, what does a Z go for in the trade? Or the one that you bought, not knowing it was a Z?
Is it something that the select breeders are not letting out yet?
I was just wondering. Email me if you'd rather not say openly.
Thanks
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**********Misty**********
I haven't lost my mind.... it's backed up on disk somewhere.

2.3.0 bearded dragons
0.1.0 water dragon
1.3.0 leopard geckos
12.20.0 corn snakes
1.1.0 jungle corns
2.2.0 king snakes
1.1.0 false water cobras
1.1.0 royal (Ball) pythons
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa
1.0.0 Sinaloan milk snake
0.1.0 Tri-Hybrid milk snake
0.1.0 rat snake
0.0.2 prairie ringneck snakes
0.1.0 chilean rose hair tarantula
1.1.0 emperor scorpions
1.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrots
0.1.0 German Shepherd hybrid dog

Rich and I are the only ones I know of with breeding sized animals. The fact that I got a het female was complete accident so I got her for a steal. My website has prices if you want to check it out.
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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

Wow! Carol, I think you're super for sharing all that info. You really do have some of the most interesting snakes. One of these days I've got to get one of your peculiar Z's.

I can just imagine that snake in an aztec pattern! Or as a motley.

Keep up the good work!

Leslie