Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I live in MA and am going through a custody battle. I recently went to court and the judge was appalled that I have reptiles in my home with kids. We have leopard geckos, chinese cave geckos, an Iguana, ball pythons, a Cal King, a Hognose, a Dumeril, an Argentine, about 30 Corn Snakes and 4 ball pythons. All you other herpophiles know that these captive born and breed pets are harmless when raised to be handled and well cared for. I have a reptile room in my house with Vision Cages for all. The kids truly love them. I am looking for statistics on animal bites/attacks/fatalities to prove that dogs, ferrets, and other widely accepted "domestic pets" are actually more dangerous than our reptiles. I have spent hours looking online and can't find a source yet. If anyone knows of any information that I can provide to my attorney, I would sincerely appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.

Here is a link on dogbite statistics. I will see if I can find more.
dog bite statistics

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Jenea

1:1 Tricolor Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

This one is from the Center for Disease Control with data on nonfatal bites and stings. "Dog bite" is a category by itself while lizards and snakes are lumped in with insects, coral stings, etc.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

Bibliography on dog bites. Has a link to "dogbite prevention week". I'm pretty sure there is no "snakebite prevention week".

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbites.htm

Piece from US Postal Service about Dogbite Prevention Week.

http://www.usps.com/communications/news/stamps/2004/sr04_032.htm

There was a piece in The Vivarium magazine around 10 years ago about fatal attacks on humans by nonvenomous snakes. The culprits were the African Rock Python, Reticulated Python, and Burmese Python, none of which you have.

Good luck.

Paul Hollander

Go to the CDC website and do a search for dog bites, cat bites, etc. That should give you plenty of info. How could they argue with the National Center for Disease Control?
center for disease control

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Jenea

1:1 Tricolor Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

You'll have to produce some literature about your animals stating that they are all non-venomous. Otherwise the "Bitten by venomous reptile..." spots might work against you. But even the number of deaths there are lower than dog attacks...

Also note this is for the year 2002...I can't seem to find any for 2004-2005, etc....

And I wonder if anyone out there has some way of telling the judge he's an ignorant and uneducated fool if he thinks "reptile=dangerous", without anyone falling under contempt of court...

And I wonder if anyone out there has some way of telling the judge he's an ignorant and uneducated fool if he thinks "reptile=dangerous", without anyone falling under contempt of court...

There's always a danger of going public during an active case, but if this lady wanted to publish the name and address of the judge, concerned herpers could write to him. The problem is that there aren't enough snake owners to form a significant voting block, and too many people in the general public would support him for denying a woman her children because she owns snakes. Another problem is finding the right vehicle for this kind of activism. I wouldn't be surprised if Kingsnake.com refused to let her publish the name in the forum. She'd likely need to work through local heretological societies and others with national newsletters.

You point to a big problem in our system. Too many judges have let their robes go to their heads. They seem to think that they are infallible and that their every prejudice or ignorant conclusion should be beyond question. I know that there are good ones, but the bad ones are a big problem.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

I wonder if it would be possible for the original poster to bring in someone such as a sympathetic herpetologist or even college bio professor with sufficient credentials to impress the judge who would speak on behalf of how harmless cornsnakes and such are. Dunno if or how that would work, but it could be worth a shot.
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0.2 chickens (Condor & Valentine)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

Those are good thoughts. Her lawyer needs to look into this possibility. The problem is that if the judge isn't interested in learning, bringing experts is only going to annoy him. Too many judges have too high an opinion of themselves and are not going to recognize anyone else as knowing anything of value. If this judge isn't that way, expert testimony of the kind you mentioned could be important evidence to introduce into the record. The judge could declare that the snakes will not be a negative factor and that the expert testimony established that fact.

It's sad when marriages fail. When a divorce is necessary, it's necessary, but the resources spent on a divorce could be better spent in so many ways.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Thanks to all of your for your responses. My ex-husband is afraid of snakes, and thus the fact that my new husband and I own them was brought into the custody battle. Our local animal control officers from the PD even came to our house to inspect our pets, and stated that none were illegal and all were well cared for. I almost laughed out loud at the judges comments, but that would have been detrimental to my case. We now have an appointed Guardiam ad litum for the kids who came over the other night to see our reptiles too. The judge ordered the removal of all the reptiles or she threated to turn all five of our kids over to state custody. Since the lawyer costs $300 per hour, I am trying my damnest to do research on my own to help him fight the case.
Thanks again.
N

I would be glad to write up a message for you to show the judge, as im sure my uncle would too. My uncle has a masters in chemical engineering, and I currently am working towards mine and have a chemistry degree. Maybe the judge will get the hint that your pets are perfectly harmless and if anything I would consider them more of a learning tool for your children, rather than detrimental. There are better experts in the field than me, but if he wants someone with a ton of schooling then that would be me. Let me know if this might help out. My email address is: Rookie4430@earthlink.net

-Sam Rosenberg