Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was planning on building a few racks for hatchling, small, and medium sized snakes

I was thinking of using 3" flexwatt to go across the back underside of the tubs, and to use this rack for sterilite tubs:

1954 - 12 Quart Storage Box 16 3/8"L x 11 1/2"W x 5 7/8"H
1956 - 27 Quart Storage Box 23"L x 16 3/4"W x 5 7/8"H

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/dxkj21/possibleRack.jpg is the picture that approximates what Im doing... the dimension are not final yet

I will be using 3/4 MDF on the sides/top, and 1/2" MDF for the shelves. I was thinking of fastening the sides/top with pre-drilled screws, and then using some sort of brackets for the 1/2" mdf. I plan on painting the MDF so it is sealed from humidity and so it wont release any nasty chemicals.

I want to use 3" Heat tape across the back, and seperately wire each shelf so i can hook it up to a power strip plugged into a thermostat, and simply unplug one or two shelves if im not using them.

Can I simply tape the flexwatt onto the shelves, or should I make some other kind of design?

Each of the tubs have tiny tiny bubble molded feet in the plastic, so they are raised a fraction of an inch up... will that be an issue with heat tape? Should I put some reflecting insulation down to ensure all of the heat goes up and not down?

any advice would be much appreciated... this is my first shelf for snakes... my rat shelf didnt turn out too great so I would appreciate feedback.

Also feedback on which thermostat to use would be appreciated (Helix only does 500 watts, so i was thinking of johnson?)

Thanks!

The picture did not work for me, but I'll assume it was a rack where the large box slides in width-wise and the smaller boxes lengthwise. I think that's a good design.

I would not use 1/2" MDF for the shelves - 3/4" will be more resistant to sagging. In fact, give the cost of MDF nowadays I'd recommend 3/4" melamine for the shelves. The melamine coating really does help the boxes slide and is more moisture resitant than painted MDF (depending on the type of paint, of course).

To save weight you could use 1/2" material for the sides.

I'll leave the heating issues to someone else, but I will comment that you probably won't have room for a radiant barrier and the flexwatt and still fit it all underneat the space created by the feet.

The only problem with melamine is that its a major pain to cut without chipping, and I dont have a 40$ blade .

Also the melamine I was looking at was 16 or 23 inches wide, I need 17 17 and 14 cut out of a full sized sheet... Seems like no problem, except that I have it cut for me lengthwise at home depot to fit in my car... and their blade is usually pretty worn (more chipping, wont be able to mask it, etc)

Get melamine from a cabinet shop and have them cut it for you. It will be perfect and of much higher quality than what you can buy at Home Depot. This is money well spent, trust me.

Did you say an 8' long shelf? That's way too much.

Why do you want it so big? Why not build a few smaller racks rather than one monster rack?

Amazingly I am building a rack for exactly the same tubs, however it is incomplete a the moment.

Mine however will be a lidded rack you didn't mention if you were using lids or not.

Based on your dimensions I think you need to revise your plan slightly. For one if you are planning on using 1/2" shelves and 9 slots the overall height will be 52.5" not 48 but you ma already know that. My main concern is using 1/2" MDF shelves at 48" their will be a drastic sag. I suggest building the rack to hold 1 1956 tub or 2 1954 tub per shelf. If you need your quanity than build two racks.

If you want a particular paint then painting will be fine, however pre-cut Melamine shelving is another way to go thought I would bring it up.

>>Can I simply tape the flexwatt onto the shelves, or should I make some other kind of design?

I suggest routing a channel to lay the heat tape in. That should avoid unecessary ware and tear. But taping it as well willl hold it down. If you do so their will be no problem with the molded feet. As far as reflectix maybe the back or top and bottom shelves will be a good idea. I built a rack using solid shelves and sides and used reflectix on the back and it doubled the heat.

Heres a picture of my rack. It uses Dimmers for each shelf cause like you said sometimes we just don't need every slot. There is a Ranco controller in the picture but it has been removed. It served no purpose!

Jeremy

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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino RTB -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's -Coming Soon-
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

I wasn't sure about sag either.... I was thinking of converting this design into a full 8' long, and 6' high. For that I would probably need some sort of support for each shelf... would something at the 4' mark suffice?

I replied about melamine to the guy above me, I dont like how hard it is to cut, and it costs ~ 50% more per sheet. If I was going to be using shelving at the exact dimensions that they have it cut at, I would be more likely to go that way.

I like your rack that you linked! Looks great for adults.

>>I wasn't sure about sag either.... I was thinking of converting this design into a full 8' long, and 6' high. For that I would probably need some sort of support for each shelf... would something at the 4' mark suffice?

No, save yourself the trouble and build a taller narrower rack like I recommened before, believe me it will beneifit you in the long run.

>>I replied about melamine to the guy above me, I dont like how hard it is to cut, and it costs ~ 50% more per sheet. If I was going to be using shelving at the exact dimensions that they have it cut at, I would be more likely to go that way.

Chris, is right like usual. Go to a cabinent shop the melamine is better quality and they will cut it for you to what every you need.

>>I like your rack that you linked! Looks great for adults.

The hatchling rack is nearly identical but shorter. I use the new rack linked for yearlings adults use cages. But then again I do raise Boas.

-----
"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino RTB -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's -Coming Soon-
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

I don't like the idea of putting screws directly into melamine, MDF, particle board etc. I know others do it but I am always concerned that the shelf will split. I have made my own brackets from 90 degree extruded aluminum. Basically angle iron but it's aluminum. It's available in 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 inch sizes and larger. I would use the 3/4 inch. Cut 1/2 inch sections, clean up the edges, setup the drill press and drill all the holes. Use 3/4 or 5/8 long screws, coarse thread, like drywall screws. If you don't feel like doing this extra work, don't have the time, etc. you can buy a box of brackets but these tend to be much thicker material.
One screw goes into the side of the rack and one screw goes into the bottom of the shelf, no splitting shelves. I place 2 on each side of a shelf and 2 on the back side of each shelf. 6 brackets per shelf but you can get away with 5, just 1 on the back in the center. The two brackets that hold each shelf to a side are placed 2 inches from the back corner and about 3 inches from the front of the shelf. There will be a small gap between each edge of a shelf and the sides and back. The same thickness of the brackets. This makes it easy to snake the flexwatt through the shelves.
As far as the flexwatt not being recessed into each shelf, I really prefer to not have boxes rub against flexwatt. Since you are using boxes with molded in feet that raise the box up off the shelf, no issue. Just place two layers of foil tape over the flexwatt where the feet will come in contact with the flexwatt. If nothing is touching the flexwatt, no problem. DO NOT sandwich the flexwatt between foil tape. The two layers go over the top of the flexwatt so the feet glide over it. Two layers because it is thin and you don't want to rub through after your boxes have slid over the flexwatt a hundred times.
If you have any questions about trying this method, let me know. I have some brackets and can take a few pictures.
John

Another option would be pocket hole screws. Kreg makes several jigs. With pocket hole screws, the starting angled hole is drilled into the shelf and the screws go from the shelf to the sides, no side splitting issues.

Here's a couple pics of a rack I recently built.

Here you can see the pocket holes in the underside of a shelf:

Here's the two racks side by side. Prior to attaching the back and the one on the left you see the rear of the rack and the heat tape obviously is in the process of lacing shelf to shelf in the recess I cut for it.

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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Couldn't agree more Dave. Pocket holes are defenetly a better alternative to drilling in from the side. I plan to use pocket hole fastners for my new face frames in my new inovative cage design, to be unveiled at a later time!

Jeremy
-----
"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino RTB -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's -Coming Soon-
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

apparently im missing a few tools How do you make the pocket holes, and what do you use to make the gap for the heat tape?

For the pocket goles, I used the Kreg Jig, found in many woodworking supply houses. Try woodworkers.com

For the recess in the shelves I used my table saw with a dado blade, took several passes per shelf. Could also use a router with a straight ended bit, again several passes required.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I have seen the technique used in the past with solid wood, very strong. The jig I saw used required special screws. Do the Kreg jigs accept drywall screws or a special type?
Thanks for posting the info, source, etc.

They recommend using the special screws, not real expensive, the kit comes with some and I order them by the 1000 box. Two types, coarse thread for mfg wood (ply, particle, mdf etc) and fine thread for solid wood. Thread pitch is for the attached piece. ie if attaching a melamine shelf to a solid wood vertical member, use the fine pitch thread.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I don't have anything capable of cutting metal very well, or a drill press. Using brackets would add another bit of space that would be needed between the tubs and the shelving wouldnt it? I was thinking of using brackets, but I might just go up to 3/4 melamine for the shelvings and put screws in from the side... if I did use brackets of some sort, would they be able to keep an 8' long shelf from saggings?

You need to get it out of your head that an 4' or even an 8' shelf will work. The tubs you plan to use fit great on a 24"x 17" Deep shelf, I know I use them. The 54 model will fit two tubs per the same shelf. Use those dimensions and build the rack vertical, if you have the wall space build more than one rack. An 8'x6' cage not only will weigh nearly 500pds but it won't fit through any normal house. Think simple not vast.
Good Luck
Jeremy
-----
"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino RTB -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's -Coming Soon-
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

100% agreed.......THINK MODULAR!!!! That way you can re-arrange as your needs change. For example, the two yearling racks I built:

could have been built as one larger rack. They would probably have needed support in the middle to prevent sagging. Only thing saved in material would have been one vertical piece, 2 racks x 2 sides each = 4, 1 larger rack x 2 sides plus one center support = 3. But, then it would have weighed almost twice as much. Each of the two racks are heavy but with a furniture dolly and a little thought, was able to easily move them from my garage, up two steps and into my snake room. The larger rack would have been almost twice as heavy and would have needed help. Also, these racks fit into recess on the sides of the closet in my snake room.....perfect usage of space.

For racks, bigger is usually not better. Taller is fine but wider causes more problems then it's worth.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Couldn't have said it better myself!
Jeremy
-----
"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino RTB -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's -Coming Soon-
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

Obviously an 8'x4' shelf made out of MDF is not going to be portable. I was planning on building it in the room and leaving it in the room, and disassembling it if we ever moved.

The reason I was thinking larger, and not smaller, is for thermostat and wiring purposes... why build 4 small ones, have to wire each individual one, and monitor the temps of them separately? A larger rack I figured would have more stable temps throughout, and could use just one thermostat with each shelf able to be turned on or off.

As far as the designs that wind the heat tape through the enclosure in an S shape, that seems like it would create an uneven amount of heat for each side it travels up, although it would be cheaper to wire that way.

I appreciate the input, and I do realize that the rack i proposed would not be portable. It would also use less material than 4 othe racks that hold the same amount.

I plan on building enough housing for 40 of those larger 27 quart tubs. The room limitsme to about 6' in height in the area i plan on putting these, so i thought longer rather than taller. Also easier for my wife to get at if she needs to help.

Thanks again, any/all input is appreciated

If you do end up making a single large rack, a couple thoughts

1. Remember to make it wide enough to have supports at appropriate intervals depending on you tub size. I saw a hatchling rack once that was sized to exactly 5 tubs wide with no supports. It was sagging and had supports added in the middle. Then there was not enough room for 5 tubs so lost 1 tub/shelf capacity.

2. Heating the entire rack can be done with one thermostat. But that does expose you to a possible major loss if that thermostat ever fails. Also, higher locations in the rack will tend to be warmer than lower ones. Easily fixed with dimmers to fine tune individual shelves. No dimmer needed on the sensor probe shelf.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I attached another example picture...

at 8 feet long I have enough space to place 3 6"x17"x3/4" mdf supports on each shelf dividing it into 4 sections per shelf, which each section will fit 1 or 2 tubs according to which size.

at a max height of 5'8 or so, will a dimmer really be necessary? I've considered using a dimmer instead of a thermostat, but the temps in the room vary a few degrees depending on the time of day, sun location, etc etc, so I thought it would be best to keep a thermostat hooked up..

Would it be better to use 2 thermostats one for the top half and one for the bottom half? Or use 2 in conjunction in case one fails?

I appreciate all of the critique... I know this isnt the typical rack, but I think it could work... I plan on building smaller hatchling racks and piecwork adult racks.... I guess I could change my plans around to make this smaller, but it seems like it would be an efficient use of materials and space.

np with the questions, better to ask, get answers/opinions then decide what/how you want to do things.

Dimmer - not by itself, I meant have all the shelves connected to a thermostat, then adjust down (if necessary) individual shelves, other than the one the thermostat sensor is connected to. Heat rises and upper shelves can be warmer than lower shelves when all controlled by the same thermostat. I have seen that affect in my BRB breeding cage so all the levels are connected to individual dimmers so I can adjust them.

-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

attached image again

..

>>n/p

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RBICHLER