Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is the Florida, or southern pine snake protected in Florida? I would like to acquire the patternless blue eye type leucistic, obviously not wild caught. I guess if it is protected that matters not, eh? Any info on the origin of these?

It is my understanding that residents of Florida are allowed one Southern Pine in the State no matter the color or pattern morph. At least that was the way it was about 10 months ago when I had a customer that wanted one shipped to Florida and I talked to Game & Fish myself.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms

Florida pines are classified as a "species of special concern" here in Florida. Residents are allowed to possess one snake. Amelanistic individuals are exempt from this restriction. Leucistics are technically not amels because of that eye color. I'm of the opinion that leucistics would pass the test, since they actually are "whiter" than most amels. I believe this topic has come up before. You probably ought to get in touch with Paul Moler at Florida Fish and Wildlife for his opinion on this. I know Paul regards the pine snakes that occur in Escambia couty, Fl. as intergrades between lodingi and mugitus. These are not subject to the "species of special concern" status.

I also posted awhile back that those folks selling "patternless" Florida or southern pines at Florida herp shows are asking for trouble. Those animals DO NOT pass the amel test. Wild patternless pines are actually not that uncommon in certain Florida localities. Just my 2 cents........again.....Steve G.

It is a wonderful coincidence, as is commonly known, that the line of leucistic southern pines are in fact intergrades between lodingi and mugitus, and therefore exempt from that protected status. Thanks for the info!

interesting.i myself have never heard this....how do you know that they originated from lodingi even partially,if at all?what happened to the leucistic blk. pines?or the hets?
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

I am unaware of such integrations, though I prefer to work with "text book" specimens, not color morphs.
Is there anyone else who can substantiate this claim to what is "common knowledge", regarding the integration of P. m mugitus and P. m lodingi, to produce leucistic specimens?

Just curious,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

This is my luecistic southern pine and it being mixed with lodingi is news to me.

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1.1 Jungle Carpet Python (both gorgeous)
1.1 Ball Python (normals, he said proudly)
3.3 hatchling ball pythons (normals)
1.1 Ball Python (het for albino)(gonna make my own albino)
1.1 Corn Snake (Okeetee, Sunglow x Snow)
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake (Blairs)
1.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Pueblan Milksnake (normal)(Apricot)
1.1 Andean Milksnake (Inca phase) (het)
1.0 Bullsnake (normal)(my garbage disposal snake)
1.1 Bullsnake (red bulls)
0.1 Black Pine Snake need '05 mate!
1.1 Southern Snow Pine (snow)(red phase snow)
1.1 Mexican Pine snake
1.2 Checkered garter snakes (albino pair & het female)
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
0.1 Spouse (WC)(hates the herps,and not real crazy about the dog)

It was suppose to be a joke, that if they are intergrades then they are not subject to the rules that apply to the "pure" types found in nature. I would imagine that without any hint of pattern wouldn't it be very hard to say for certain exactly what the leucistic might be derived from? I would think that with all the budget shortfalls and more important things going on in the world one wouldn't have to worry about getting busted for having an interest in maintaining Leucistic Southern Pinesnakes.

There has been a bit of talk among within the Indigo forum to this regard, as some have questioned as to whether or not a D. couperi x D. m erebennus integrate would be subject to Florida, Texas and USF&W Interstate commerce regulations. Of course, such a discussion always creates a sense of disillusionment among the community and being purist, much like the Pituophis community, such practices are generally shunned…

Thanks for the clarification,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

What's to get? This guy is a troll. I am curious, however, if anyone has any genetic background info on leucistic pine snakes. I'm not big on amel snakes as a rule(don't care for those pink eyes) but I have seen some pics of leucistic animals that were really awesome. Anyone out there that has a stand out leucistic pine...........post a pic, and tell us a bit about the origin of your animal.............Steve G.

N/P
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

riiight....anyway,steve-i posted a related question to whomever had info in the 'morph forum'...it's dated feb 27th,i think....paul hollander responded,and attatched a link to a very in-depth discussion somewhat related to this...check it out,hope this helps some.
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

As I mentioned in my earlier post, this discussion has come up a few times on the Drymarchon forum, regarding the legality a D. couperi x D. m erebennus would pose, being kept in either Florida or Texas. It has since become a running joke, as to how one might keep "Big Brother" off your back regarding the legality of keeping and shipping protected species without permits and hassles.
I just figured the joke had crossed over to the Pituophis forum, though such are not nearly as restricted as the Drymarchon spp. indicated…

Best regards,

Jeff

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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947