Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I got this guy from Mark Miller's killer Jungle litter last year. He's starting to put on some good size and really color up although my bad pics don't show it.
Brock

would enjoy an updated pic or two of the patternless Harlequins. nice jungle, but you should have gotten some more harlequins with that money. later Brendan



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People will say what they want to say, believe what they want to believe. No matter what proof you have to the contrary.

Brendan
BCI by Design

Those Harlequins are out of this world! I sure am glad I got that male from you when I did....He sure is a Gorgeous animal! I can't wait to produce some of those genetic wonders someday! Thanks again, Andy
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fess up and tell everyone, lol. Just kidding, that thing looks AWESOME!!! He's a headliner and shouldn't be hidden in my post. I wish I got more Harlequins from you when I had the chance, at least a male. My Hypo Harlequin female is about a week away from delivering Motleys I hope. I'm just hoping for a healthy litter but inside I'm really hoping something wild looking like yours pops out. Good to see you posting again, you and your Bro have some amazing animals, we need to see more of them. This is her in November.
Brock

like to see her now, I took these last night. She's still got it going on but check out the scale seperation, I hope it means she's got something going on the inside too. She's held her light color as an adult, even pregnant.

..He has that nice light soft look to him behind the head and then as you look down him he just gets more and more intense! I love the weird pattern on that one too! Cant wait to see what you pair him up with!

Thank You! He's got those looks and a killer feeding response. He hits f/t rats like a truck, couldn't ask for more. It's hard to see how pink his back is getting all except inside that elongated saddle four down from his head. You can see it better in this pic where the saddle breaks open it looks like the side color and spotting leaked up onto the top. You mentioned something about it when I bought him but it's getting much more noticeably different then the rest of his back as he gets bigger, very cool looking in person. I have a nice Sunglow and an extremely red Hypo I got from D&M Exotics (Dan Mulleary) lined up for him. Brock

"but you should have gotten some more harlequins with that money..." interesting ending to a thread hijacking....

did i hit a nerve there marky???

**"Where's th' happy lil' tire swing?"**
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People will say what they want to say, believe what they want to believe. No matter what proof you have to the contrary.

Brendan
BCI by Design

....Ball pythons?? Just wondering.
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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

made famous by Rodney King after he met the LA Police, lol. Can you believe that was March 3, 1991, wow 15 years ago already. Time flys when your having fun breeding Boas!

even if you are a few years off in knowing how the genetics are passed on I seriously hope you repeat that breeding.
I think it is safe to say that EVERY morph breeder wants one!

that the Harlequins created the patternless. The gene could have just as easily come from the normal parent, right? or, the combination of those two specific animals.
It's interesting/telling that pictures of the patternless' parents have never been shown.
Selling Harlequins as being able to produce patternless boas is deceiving to say the least.. it makes one wonder if there hasn't been other deceptions..
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sounddjinn@yahoo.com

Things always get cloudy, just before transformation.

My thoughts exactly!

Further more, why if this is the harlequin gene at work haven't they been produced previously from harlequin to harlequin but now appear from harlequin to wild trait?

My guess if it has anything to do with harlequin then the female normal had a hidden gene that worked together with the harli to produce this awesome looking trait.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

I know your comments were directed towards Brendan,and rightly so,since he produced the boas in question. I'm addressing Randy,Mark & Djin(?) and their comments for the record...There is no proof that the Harlequin bloodline is solely,or directly responsible for the seemingly spontaneous mutation that occured,and I personally agree that to lead any potential investor/customer to believe that all animals produced from this bloodline are somehow "het for patternless" is outright deception...If any of you have noticed,neither Brendan,nor I have EVER made any such claim,(so before you start presumptively guessing about something you obviously know little,or NOTHING about,try to remember that the only person who has made such a claim,has NEVER EVEN produced anything from this bloodline! they're simply re-selling MY surplus!) I have spent the last nine years working with these animals,and have gone above & beyond anything close to standard hobby/industry protocol to keep from deceiving anyone about any aspect of what they represent,I refused to jump on the "pastel" bandwagon when it rolled through "boa-town",I also steadfastly insisted they were NOT Jungles,even though that would've been the short-term big money interest that MANY other less scrupulous hobbyists would've tried to hitch a ride on....so please don't insinuate that this project,whether you like it,or not,has anything to do with deception,or deceptive practices...and direct you concerns in this regard to the proper individual. we cannot police every person that buys an animal from us,but that doesn't mean we agree with every aspect of what they do with them when they leave here...thanks!
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EMAIL

In Brendan's first post it reads: Hey Brock I thought you would enjoy an updated pic or two of the patternless HARLEQUINS. nice jungle, but you should have gotten some more HARLEQUINS with that money. later Brendan

That post led me to believe that if I bought harlequins I too could produce patternless boas. What did Brendan mean by saying "You should have gotten more Harlequins with that money" if not to imply that Harlequins were responsible for the patternless? Just curious.

Jason Gonzalez

Wow,that is pretty deceptive! (I believe it was some good natured ribbing between two friends,but now that you mention it...it may be a plot to trick Steve into buying more Harlequin animals,or possibly to get his credit card pin number through subliminal manipulation...hmmm) good point! )
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EMAIL

Sorry if that came across the wrong way Tim, I didn't mean anything by it. After your brother posted that, I really thought that two harlequins could make a patternless. Which is why I e-mailed him immediately after asking where I could get some(ask him to check his inbox). I did not know the relationship between Steve and your brother and I interpreted it the wrong way. Again Sorry. Hope there are no hard feelings.

Jason Gonzalez

Rainshadow, Some of my questions have now been answered but could you answer the rest? Thanks.
Mike

Typing a reply for you Micheal,but the server reset,(which usually ques me that I'm making it TOO long! *lol*) feel free to email me...I have been known to ramble on incesantly about these animals,so for the sake of those that have already heard more than they care to...I'll be happy to give you honest answers based on actual experience,rather than a sales schpiel. (I have no past due credit card bill *lol*)
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EMAIL

(I just couldn't believe you were serious?)My apologies for being overly sarcastic,it was basiclly tongue-in-cheek though...Brendan & I are only interested in honest representation of these animals,and we were as shocked as anyone else about the patternless they were only produced a year ago,so there is absolutely no way to answer the questions about them accurately at this point,all we can do is continue working with them & see where it leads us....Genetics is facinating because it is only a theory of potential probability we all try to use to explain & gain an understanding of the oddities that nature bombards us with.(so we're often left with a sum for which we have to build an equasion around!*lol*)
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EMAIL

A bloodline known to throw an extremely wide range of pattern aberrancies and seems to be a very mysterious "trait" that we can't/haven't figured out ... what are the chances that when this bloodline is outcrossed for the first time from an F3 breeding to a normal that the NORMAL throws a spontaneous mutation. Think about the odds here. How many normals are out there producing? How many are throwing patternless mutations? Answer those questions and youll have yourself a mathmatical odd. Now flip it around, what are the chances that a trait that we are still trying to understand that throws an extremely wide range of aberrancies (look up the word aberrant) would throw a patternless. Much higher I would contend. Im not saying anything caused anything... just trying to look at it from a logical standpoint. I dont see anything wrong with insinuating that if you have harlequin blood there is the potential that you could reproduce the patternless trait ... because thats true, the potential is there. It could be from the harlequin bloodline. To call them, like Tim said, het patternless or something like that... or to claim that for sure they will be able to throw patternlesses is outright wrong.
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

The type of logic that I had always hoped would be much more prevalent in the herpetocultural community,as a whole....however,what I have found in its place is an extremely debilatating two dimentional mindset that often borders on outright denial...A healthy amount of cautious skeptisism is a "good thing"...but after nine years of showing people what this can do,and freely providing information about how it was done,I think most people can see that "it ain't easy to present something new" especially if it ruffles the delicate fabric of peoples self woven reality blanket...we are going to continue to see many other things in the near future that challenge the way we view genetic mutations.(there's more to genetics than "co-dom,or recessive".!!!) good post Ryan...
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EMAIL

That patternless boa is amazing. It blows my mind everytime I see them. Its actually my little bros favorite morph. I was looking for some more info on them and I really couldn't find anything so I'm hoping you could answer some questions. How many litters have you had where the patternless boa popped up?Have you bred that same pair or pairs together since you produced them? Have you bred either of the parents to other boas? What were the parents and can we see a pic of them? Do you think it is the super form of the harlequins? What do you personally think is going on here? Do they appear to be 100% healthy? What are your furture plans with them? And if you breed a harley with a harley will all of the babies be harlequins? Thanks and any other info on them would be appreciated.
Michael Burton