Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I finally finished a wall of new Gila caging. I’ve tried many different designs over the last number of years before this design. I wanted something that is easy to maintain with a large colony in a reasonable amount of space. Another requirement was excellent thermal control. It goes hand-in-hand with a new environmental control system I built this winter. It manages all the season temperature and humidity variations for the entire year automatically. I am able to duplicate shelter temps found in the wild (These parameters are also tied to a photoperiod from the same Arizona location that the shelter temps are from). In addition, the system provides basking opportunities with heat and light (visible, UVA and UVB). I also have cameras permanently built in to the cages to monitor breeding activity. I happy with the design and I’m anxious to see how it performs this breeding season.

If I’m still happy with the design after a season of working with the cages, I’ll finish the Gila room by filling the opposite wall with the same units.

Best,

Mark

www.DrSeward.com

Very nice, are the lined up along a southern window? I dont think I have ever seen such a spotless reptile room..
Robert

No, the lighting is all artificial (that gives me more control). I have 200mW/sq.cm of UVB at the basking area.
www.DrSeward.com

Mark, very impressive setup, clean and industrious looking or should I say clean and flossed looking being built by a Dentist LOL? what size are the plastic sweater boxes and how many do you house per unit?
Thanks, Bob
Maxian's Collection

Beautiful setup! What are the dimensions of those boxes? I am contemplating a similar setup for my beadeds with box dimensions of 44x20x6.5. Probably too small for permanent housing (for large beadeds), but it may work until I get some larger cages.

Sam

17X34X5.5

Mark, a question regarding the UVA and UVB matter in gilas? What has been your thoughts on the importance of UVA and UVB in gilas? And from the way people keep their gilas without the UV lighting has not shown any ill effects on either their gilas or offspring as far as I know but perhaps you know different? Oviously UV is part of their natural habitat and cannot be argued as to their needing it in some form. Second question is based on the photo of your new caging setup it looks as though the UV lighting is on one side of the plastic tubs and for the UV to be effective it has to be unfiltered so what do you have on that side of the tubs to transmit the UV? Do you have holes in the tubs to allow unfiltered UV to pass through or screen fit into that end of the tubs? What brand of UVB bulbs are you useing? I have 2 different UV meters and have found some of the bulbs currently on the market are as useful as snow shovels in Death Valley. They do put out some UV but nothing like their great claims tell you.
Thanks, Bob Sutton
Maxian's Collection

As with most reptiles that feed on whole mammals, Heloderma don't require UVA or UVB to prevent metabolic bone disease or other ailments related to calcium deficiency because they derive plenty of calcium and vitamin D3 from the rodents they feed on. However, there could be more subtle benefits that UV exposure would bring (things we may not necessarily be aware of currently). The general consesus I have heard (in discussions about a wide variety of species) is that there may or may not be a benefit to UV exposure, but it certainly couldn't hurt.

First, nobody knows if UV radiation is important for Gilas. I have no doubt that it is not required for the general health of the animal. Gilas are able to get vitamin D3 from dietary sources. They are not subject to metabolic bone disease like many other diurnal lizards in the absence of UVB or supplemented D3. However, the importance of UV radiation in Gila monster reproduction is not understood.

My philosophy is simple. In the absence of definitive answers to what factors control Gila monster reproduction, it is always best to aim at duplicating what the animals experience in the wild. Gila monster reproduction is not difficult—they have been doing it quite successfully for millions of years. What makes Gilas difficult to reproduce in captivity has everything to due with their unique adaptations to their environment and our lack of understanding of exactly what factors stimulate and sustain their reproduction. I am convinced that there is nothing about the requirements of reproduction that can’t be provided in the captive environment. The potential factors influencing Gila reproduction include social interaction, photoperiod, temperature, nutrition, etc.

Free-ranging Gila monsters bask in the spring, often raising their body temperatures significantly above ambient temps. Consequently, they are exposed to UVA/UVB radiation. Therefore, it is reasonable to provide such basking opportunities in captivity in the absence of definitive information demonstrating it is not useful.

“for the UV to be effective it has to be unfiltered”. Well…that depends on what you mean. Regular glass certainly does not transmit UVB very well at all. Normal acrylic also filters out most UVB. However, the tubs allow for the transmission of most of the UVA and UVB. At the basking area I have UVA and UVB levels equivalent to normal sunlight (after the light goes through the tubs). I’m using 2 Reptisun 10.0 lamps per rack (actually 4 lamps to make two 5-foot strips). Also, I am using a highly reflective reflector behind each lamp.

Some may say that they breed their Gilas just fine without UV radiation. However, the question is not if UV radiation is required for successful reproduction. Rather, a better questions is whether UV radiation can increase the success with captive reproduction. Those are two very different things.

Comments?

Mark

Mark, I totally agree with you on the UVB, UVA being a natural part of the gilas life , whether they need it or not we dont know but it is safe to assume it should benefit them in someway, obviously not needed for successful reproduction but for psychological well being which in turn would make their behaviors more natural in captivity. Obviously the UVA and UVB are not good for us as they can promote skin cancer but on the flipside they make UVA lights to treat people that get seasonal depression from lack of UV rays, with that said and knowing that the sun affects us and we are not cold blooded and reliant on the sun for warmth as are the gilas, I think it is safe to say the gilas would benefit in someway from UV. I have used many different bulbs including UVB that are prescription bulbs for humans with skin disorders, This particular bulb I used years ago on hatchling bearded dragons that were suffering from metabolic bone disease and the bulb could only be used for 15 min. per day and it did do the job and get the hatchlings back on track. I have noticed as Im sure you and others have that when you put a gila out in the sun they seem to get a little bit more aggressive? At least this has been my experience with several different gilas in the past. To me this is proof of some mood enhancement from UV rays. I wasn't aware that and UV could penetrate those tubs? Years ago I bought a piece of UV transmissible Plexiglas for a window I constructed for my Jackson chameleons and use to put their cage right in front of the window. Ive always been a firm believer in UV being a positive element to any diurnal lizard in captivity. Although a good friend of mine who breeds or use to breed all of the dwarf monitors totally disagrees with me? I dont see how anyone can think UV rays wouldn't be beneficial to some degree on these reptiles that rely on the sun for life. I was just kind of shocked to see how you implemented UV into the captive gilas life as they have proven to breed successfully without it but its definitely a good thing. Thanks for sharing your husbandry techniques. It will be interesting to see how things pan out for you in your use of the lights, Im sure you will keep good notes for comparison down the road and when and if any changes occur from the use of the lights you will then know. I may set up some of the beaded hatchlings under some UV lights I have here, Im not so sure my tubs will allow UV transmission as they are transparent but do have a touch of color in the plastic which may filter the UV out. I will have to test them with my UV meter and see. It is surprising that those tubs do allow UV to pass through them though.
Thanks, Bob Sutton

For a active breeding female I can see nothing but a benifit from the UV. I used UV on my Varanid groups as well and recieved 6-8 clutches of fertile eggs in one year. The females seem to bounce back faster and had less stress between clutches.
Uv is not required for health on them as well, but the benifits on a active breeding group were obvious.
Robert

I have gotten in the habit of placing some of my more difficult to breed snakes in outside enclosures during the time of year in which they would breed. It has worked very well for me. I had a discussion on one of the other forums and there may be a link between the vitamin D in sunshine/uv and hormones.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Very clean setup Mark, I may employ something similiar with my horridum until they get too large.
Have you measured the output of the lights at the basking side in the center then towards the end of the light bar? Do they experience a drop in output as you reach the distal end of the fixture. It looks like you have them screwed to the framework of the rack system on the backside.
Nice tile floor too.

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

I once have a Chemistry Professor tell me that most of the UV light spectrum does not pass through plastics?? Just curious on your ideas. Its kind of funny because he mentioned Sun Glasses and how some companies make note that their glasses block UV light, and some do not, but in reality he said all plastics block out the majority of UV light.....

If you don't mind will you give me you best opinions?? Both are approx 1.5 years old.

Thanks!!!

Chris
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Chris Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

"Plastic" is a very generic term. Many plastics do block UVB. The hard, clear polystyrene blocks most UVB--like the old Phillips shoe boxes. As does polycarbonate. Polypropylene and polyethylene seem to allow the transmission of most UVB. It also depends on what kind of additives are in the plastic.

As far as your pics, the second one looks like a female to me. Although it can be difficult to tell from photos and in young animals (many can fool you).

I always find it best to be patient (fall at two years or the next spring at 2.5 yrs)--and use an ultrasound. I could give you examples of animals that have been with some of the most experienced breeders in the country for a decade and were thought to be one sex when they actually were another (in the specific example I am thinking of the "male" was actually a female). That makes breeding much harder than it needs to be!
www.DrSeward.com

np
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Chris Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps