Reptile & Amphibian Forums

alive? I have been trying to breed rats for about 3 months now but they keep dying off one by one. They seem great, then one day I will notice them start to get really sluggish and skinny. I don't get it, I've tried a few different things like food, substrate, treats, etc. At first I had about 14 rats when they started dying, then I thought "ok, might be a disease or something" so I killed off the rest of what I had, froze them, scrubbed the cages, and started over with just a male and female. Now, my male has the same symptoms. Funny thing is, I have a pet rat that's not a breeder, under the same conditions, and her cage is on top of the breeders cage, she's 2 1/2 years old and doing great. I don't get it.

Maby it's where you are getting your stock from? Just a thought
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1.2.0 ball python (aragorn, arwen,`eowyn)
1.0.0 100% het pied (frodo)
1.0.0 columbian boa (squiggles)
1.0.0 rat snake (alabastered)
0.1.0 corn snake (baby)
0.0.2 whites tree frog (trevor, kirmet)
0.0.5 pacific green tree frogs
3.2.0 cats (rockie, bs, brownie, lerrado, kole)
1.3.0 kids (dilyen, dakota, chyanne, sierra)
Brian n Chrissy
"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

Are they showing any obvious physical signs like bleeding noses or red around the eyes? You might also want to post this to the http://forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=9 forum.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Before I would panic, I would switch sources.
Try raising up some rats from youngsters from another breeder.
One suggestion I would make, don't buy rats from anyone who gets them from a lab. They just don't do very well outside of the lab.
I've tried three times using rats from the "big suppliers" you see selling online. They pretty much do as you describe. Waste away and die. A waste of time and money.
I found a "local breeder" and purchased from him, some new breeding stock. And what a difference!
I have five racks going, each holding 16 tubs. I am currently producing more rats then I need. Better to have to much and then not enough.
Another thing I do is, I have them in their own building. Seprate from anything else. Heat them in the winter, Cool them in the summer. No peaks and valley's when it comes to production. Most don't do this and their production slows during extreme weather, either to hot or to cold.
So, in closing, I would suggest, try switching breeders, before you run to a vet with sick rats!
Ron Billingsley

Like the others have said try a different supply. Get young rats. Medium size is probably good. Keep the females seperate then put them together after you've had them 2 months or so. It'll give them a chance to mature more. They will breed before they really need to and that causes still births and sometimes the loss of your female rat. If your sick ones are white check them for dark blotches under the skin or lumps on any rats. Many rats suffer from cancer. If they get ate it's not a problem, but it'll kill them off before they can breed. I can't think of anything other than that.
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3.2 Ball python (Hoss, Little Man, Adam, Helen, and the new girl who gets named when she eats)
2.2 Corn snakes (Orlando and Legolas and the newbies)
0.1 King snake (Sidhe which sounds exactly like "she"
0.0.1 GTP (Kissy the Red)
1.1 Haitian Boa (Enkil and Akasha)

And bunches of furry pets

I agree with the others who recommend buying your stock young. Before my colony became self sustaining, I purchased all future breeders as very young animals and raised them myself. Who knows what conditions they have adapted to that you are not replicating. good luck.

Will

I haven't noticed any other symptoms other than what I have explained before. I bought my first two rats from a local pet store near me and that's when I first had this problem with them dying off. I have one male and one female now that I purchased elsewhere, but now the male is showing the same signs. I don't remember if it was on the ball python forum or the boa forum, but someone responded to me and it made me think that when I aquired my new rats now, I forgot to change thier water bottles, so that's my next step. Thanks everyone

Where are they being kept in your house. I had a similar problem when I started breeding rats. They would all get pneumonia and die. Then I tried a local breeder to get my stock and I have not had any problems. Everyone else is correct. Rats raised in lab conditions do not do well outside the lab.
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1.2 Het Pied
1.1 Het Lavender Albino
1.1 Het Albino
0.7 Normals
1.0 50% Het lav albino

Deffinitely change your source, that is good advise. Find out where the petstores get their stock as well, as several petstores may get their stock from the same supplier, and if all they are getting are short lived, unhealthy disease carrying etc, rats, it won't matter if you get them from another petstore. Some petstores breed their own but this may not be any better, as I doubt they worry about adding fresh blood, just breed the male/female till death and start breeding offspring to replace them, till the babies are so inbred they are much more prone to common rat ailments, such as tumors, myro etc.

I also suggest you move your pet rat elsewhere. It is always possible she/he is a carrier for something that is making your new rats sick. Though I can't think of any specific disease rats can carry and infect other rats and not be infected themselves, it is always possible. It could easily be transmitted by any external parasites your rat may have.

Deffinitely clean and disinfect everything used with the rats that kept dying. Disinfect the area around where you usually keep them. Also make sure there isn't anything in the area that could be giving off fumes or is toxic to rats. (though if this was the case, would have killed your own rat by now too).

When buying new rats, make sure they are young, and ask for pet rats, instead of feeder/breeder rats. The petstore doesn't need to know what you plan to do with your rats. Getting a couple young females from one petstore (that doesn't share stock with those who's rats you bought died on you that is) and a male from a different source, will help ensure fresh bloodlines (in theory anyway). Get them all the same day or in a day or two of eachther, so you can put the whole group together. Even though it's not good to breed rats too young, I find they tend to not produce for a few months of being together anyway so by that time, the females will be old enough to carry their first litter.

Don't ask for live feeder rats, or adult rats as you have no ideal how old they are. Some could very well be retired breeders the petstore has, and thus wont' live long anyway, being bred out and old. You can also sometimes get young rats by checking the local classifieds. There are always people who buy two rats and either the petstore is clueless on how to sex rats or the owners were clueless on recognizing or asking for same sex groups, or realize just how easily and how often rats breed and how big the litters are. IN this case be selective. If the rats dont' look healthy, are unclean, etc, don't buy them. It is even possible to make a deal with them, take all the females for a discount (ie 3 for price of 2 etc) and most likely they will go for it, as they are trying to et rid of extra rats as it is and it's not always easy to find homes for rats or mice. Again, don't say you are going to use them as food for your snakes, or as breeders. People can be really touchy about that. Just say you love rats and had a few die of old age recently and want to get more...or whatever plausable story you can come up with. Maybe not a nice thing to do but if these people really cared about their rats and knew how to take care of them properly, they wouldn't have bred them in the first place LOL. Most are pets bought for kids who became bored with them after a few weeks or insisted on getting a male and female or whatever, and now the parents want to get rid of all the rats cause their kids don't care about them anymore etc.
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PHLdyPayne

That is great information, I really appreciate it. More than likely what I'm going to do is disinfect all the cages I have, scrub them pretty good, and I'm going to replace thier hides and water bottles. I'll look for other pet shops in a few nearby cities so minimize my chance of getting the same stock I have been getting. Thanks again.

To be honest with you, I would actully buy your rats from someone who keeps them a little on the dirty side. They will have a much better immune system and should not die on you.
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1.2 Het Pied
1.1 Het Lavender Albino
1.1 Het Albino
0.7 Normals
1.0 50% Het lav albino

I live in a large metropolitan area and still had a hard time finding good quality breeder rats at all the local pet shops. I think they all pretty much get them from the same person. They were all males and pretty unhealthy looking. I finally posted a thread in the kingsnake-feeder food forum, asking for a breeder in my area. Someone answered me and I went over to his house. I was able to see how they were being kept, and hand pick the ones I wanted. I've had great luck with them and they are breeding like crazy for me.
Good luck,
Kirk

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1.1 Jungle Carpet Python (both gorgeous)
1.1 Ball Python (normals, he said proudly)
3.3 hatchling ball pythons (normals)
1.1 Ball Python (het for albino)(gonna make my own albino)
1.1 Corn Snake (Okeetee, Sunglow x Snow)
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake (Blairs)
1.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Pueblan Milksnake (normal)(Apricot)
1.1 Andean Milksnake (Inca phase) (het)
1.0 Bullsnake (normal)(my garbage disposal snake)
1.1 Bullsnake (red bulls)
0.1 Black Pine Snake need '05 mate!
1.1 Southern Snow Pine (snow)(red phase snow)
1.1 Mexican Pine snake
1.2 Checkered garter snakes (albino pair & het female)
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
0.1 Spouse (WC)(hates the herps,and not real crazy about the dog)