Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all - new to forum. Anyways, could someone clarify the issue of morphs which will not cross? For example, I've gathered that the leucistic/blizzard lines are not able to be expressed in crosses with all other morphs. Also, if one linebred differing albino strains such as tremperXrainwater, would you get offspring expressing both albinos in 2 generations, or would you rather lose any possibility of expressing albinism - and if the latter is the case could the specific albino strain be outcrossed again - or would the expression of albinism be permanently cancelled in all descendents carrying the mixed albino gene? Long question I know, but I'd appreciate if someone would illuminate the issue. Thanx...

>Hello all - new to forum. Anyways, could someone clarify the issue of morphs which will not cross? For example, I've gathered that the leucistic/blizzard lines are not able to be expressed in crosses with all other morphs.

I don't know anything about leucistic/blizzard in leopard geckos.

>Also, if one linebred differing albino strains such as tremperXrainwater, would you get offspring expressing both albinos in 2 generations, or would you rather lose any possibility of expressing albinism

In the species that I have messed around with (mice, pigeons, chickens, a few others), there are different recessive mutant genes that produce a similar appearance. When two lines are crossed, the babies look normal. Let's say that A is a normal gene, and a is a mutant gene for albino. And B is a normal gene, and b is a mutant gene for amelanistic. An individual with the genes aa BB looks very much like an individual with the genes AA bb. When an aa BB is crossed with an AA bb, all the babies have the genes Aa Bb and look normal.

If two Aa Bb animals are mated, some of their babies could turn out to have the genes aa bb. They do not look normal. They may look exactly like an AA bb animal, exactly like an aa BB animal, exactly like both the AA bb and aa BB animals, or there may be subtle differences from both parental strains. It goes on a case by case basis.

If an aa bb animal is outcrossed to a normal, it is possible to separate the a mutant gene from the b mutant gene and put them in separate strains again. You do not combine the a and b mutant genes to get a single new gene.

My expectation is that Rainwater and Tremper albinos could be crossed and that the two different mutant genes would behave in the same way.

Paul Hollander

The blizzard and murphy patternless (aka leucistic) genes block color and pattern, they dont combine well with other morphs for that reason. The blizzard gene also shows trait linkage when combined with the albino genes.

Ive actually wondered the same thing about the albino thing myself. I know that the only way that the three albino genes were proven different from eachother is that they were bred to eachother and produced normal offspring. As far as I know no one has even tried to produce triple, or even double recessive albinos yet. Ron Tremper himself doesnt even know if it would be possible. He said that they might even be mutations on the same locus. If thats the case then its like one of the amelanistic genes in cornsnakes. Then, even if someone did combine all three or even just two of the albino traits, how would one tell if the animal they had truely was a double het? They would have to do many many test breeds to prove out that it is a true homozygous animal, and not just tremper het for bell or something like that. Then, what if there is trait linkage...... I guess no ones tried it because on one wants to waste the time or money to even try. Then, one must wonder what would happen to all the "by-product" geckos of that program. A gecko that is one form of albino and het for one or two of the others would add confusion when testbred to find out which strain it is...
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Leopard Geckos 1.7.6
1.0 Blazing blizzard
0.1 Tremper albino
0.1 Tremper 66% het bliz
0.3 Normal 66% het blazing bliz
0.1 Giant het Tremper
0.1 Carrothead Tangerine Giant Tremper ?% het RAPTOR
0.0.3 Blizzard
0.0.3 Normal
Bull Frog 1.0