Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OR WHAT!

Everyone I have talked to about them wont really say a whole lot, Ive heard of prices over $2k FOR A RAT!!!

Granted its some peoples business, but so are regular rats and I can get females all day long!

Regardless, I will find them sooner or later. Its just very weird that people that have them that arent selling them to make money wont even help out.

Bottom line is there are alot of snakes out there that will DIE because they wont eat rats or mice. ITS NOT THAT THEY ARE STRESSED OR SICK! THEY JUST DONT LIKE MICE AND RATS!!!!!!I have one now that I have been force feeding weekly just to keep alive. It ate 3 Africans the first night and the next day one that had been dead for almost a whole day!

Just think about how many people die every day because they can get/afford/go over to Canada to pick up their much needed prescription drugs.

It's just business.

Most CBB snakes readily accept domestic rats or mice - if you bought a WC that won't that was the chance you took. If people would stop buying the WCs maybe people would leave them were they can find their own food. Less than 1% of ball pythons survive past their first year in the wild - more than that survive in captivity. Theres a Darwin quote in there somewhere I'm sure.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

That i have talked to wont sell females. They arent doing anything but using them for their collections. They just wont help. They lose or gain nothing from it.

Im getting close to finding them and when I do Ill send them out for free! LOL

I would like to know what references you used to come up with only 1% of balls make it past their first year.
Let's stick to facts and not heresay shall we?
Please give me your references so I can follow up on that statement.
Thank you
Ron Billingsley

Its that study that came with the Ball Pythons in the Wild DVD as well as something else I'd read - can't remember I read lots of studies.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

Well, I'm no scientist, but if only 1% made it to be one year old, then it would be an endangered speices. Ball Pythons are not even threatened.
You have to look at the entire population and range of a given animal, and then subract what the market share is, to come up with a quota. Ball Pythons are only exported from Three Countries, Countries the size of some of our smaller states.
But they range across numerous regions, far into the center part of the contient.
Great Example I can show you:
Back in the '80's the State of Texas protected Gray Banded Kingsnakes, on the fear they "might" be over collected.
But after a few studies being done, one study actually became a book, that the state was forced to drop their protection.
You see, only a number of roads cut across their habiatat, and there is no way they can be overcollected, for 99% of Texas is private property and we collectors just can't cover all the areas they are found in.
And today..... Gray Banded Kingsnakes.... does anyone still even look for them? Maybe, but nowhere near the numbers they use to back in the good ole' days.
Ball Pythons, are they overcollected out of the wild? My honest "guess" proably not. Will they enforce laws to govern their collections and limits, I would say yes, in the near future. But like corns, kings and rat snakes, there are enough Ball Pythons in captivity today, that if they would close down all importation, it could substain itself.
We can today, stop importing Leopard Geckos, Burms, Retic, etc, etc, and do just fine.
What fuels the balls is the morphs!! What is next to be found?
Ron Billingsley

.....I don't read studies.....I would if I could find them...but on comuters it's 99% crap sites...anyways.......

........I would bet....40 % and more of balls die in the egg.....I would bet some species of bird eats another 20% and a species of mammal eats another 30% .....

I would believe that less than 10% make it a year and some of them die the next year.......

.......would be endangered?

commone cottontail rabbits and sqirreals.......average lifespan is 3 and 4 month for them.......yet they are doing well........

mice,rats and voles (etc etc).....most of them die in less than a couple months......yet they are all over the place.....

........numbers.........

.......too bad we can't teach English sparrows and starlings to catch and eat feral cats..................
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you think????

>>>too bad we can't teach English sparrows and starlings to catch and eat feral cats

Man I hate it when that happens. The rest read................
ROTFLMAO!!!Man, sometimes you just crack me up . Would be somethin' to see though, eh?

Quig

Don't go putting ideas into my head you two!...now i gotta take up Falconry...
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

AH HA!! Another solution

Quig

it's a midlife thing........?....46 in 13 days....but not counting.......

wait.I been wierd since birth..nevermind......

yea.....like the bumper sticker said.(never did find where to buy them)...I love cats.....dead ones..........

bunch of birds setting around the bird feeder singing and waiting....along comes a big ole' cat...the lead sparrow screams..along comes 27 starlings and they attack the cat all at once.......the eyes go first.....cat screams and tries to run...the sparrows trip it up......and they all feast till they can't fly anymore.......and make nests from cat hair?....

........actually....the other day I heard a ringneck pheasant cock cackle in my yard.I ran outside(they are like not supposed to be in my yard)...a sharp shinned hawk yells and takes off from a tree.......the pheasant was running for all he had out the back and over the next street........?.I want to know if the sharpie actually grabbed the pheasant?......it weighs like twice plus what he weighs.?........I've had them crash in the yard from a pigeon that weighed them down.......

I wanted the pheasant.......LOL........another white meat

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you think????

>>Don't go putting ideas into my head you two!...now i gotta take up Falconry...
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For feral cats (adults), you need a great horned owl. And you can't train owls to fly/hunt in the manner people fly hawks and falcons I'm afraid. A hawk has a small chance of pulling a kitten down, but not a half grown or full grown cat.... GHOs are built for taking large prey such as skunks so cats are not any difficulty for them....talking like 250 pounds of pressure per square inch in them talons - they could theoretically put holes in a human skull if they could get a grip on it.

We had a GHO move into our neighbor hood some years ago.. within 2 years the feral cat population was well under control. Been a few years now and you are lucky to see only 1 or 2 cats slinking around compared to the dozens it used to be (daytime that is.. more would come out at night lol).
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PHWyvern

Actually you can train Great Horns and Snowy owls. A lot harder than hawks and falcons, but you can. You'd haver to be a general falconer so you can hatch them yourself or buy them from someone who hatched them. Grown ones will not usually tame. Besides apprentices can usually only fly Red-Tails or Kestrels. You might also be able to use a Golden to hunt cats, they're big enough to take down a dog, but the permits for them are hard to get and you have to be a Master for several years if I remeber right. That's 7 years minimal. 2 as apprentice 5 as general. And I would not recomend hawking cats.
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3.2 Ball python (Hoss, Little Man, Adam, Helen, and the new girl who gets named when she eats)
2.2 Corn snakes (Orlando and Legolas and the newbies)
0.1 King snake (Sidhe which sounds exactly like "she"
0.0.1 GTP (Kissy the Red)
1.1 Haitian Boa (Enkil and Akasha)

And bunches of furry pets

>>Actually you can train Great Horns and Snowy owls. A lot harder than hawks and falcons, but you can. You'd haver to be a general falconer so you can hatch them yourself or buy them from someone who hatched them. Grown ones will not usually tame. Besides apprentices can usually only fly Red-Tails or Kestrels. You might also be able to use a Golden to hunt cats, they're big enough to take down a dog, but the permits for them are hard to get and you have to be a Master for several years if I remeber right. That's 7 years minimal. 2 as apprentice 5 as general. And I would not recomend hawking cats.

We have a really tame GHO that came to us as an unreleasable adult... partial wing removed. he was either poach shot or hit by a car. He's been a darling since the first day we got him.. been over 12 years now.

out of the 7 birds we have, the two troublesome ones are the redtail and the barn owl. RT is just ditzy/flighty. The barn owl is the devil himself. The redshoulder hawk is surpisingly calm for his type. The barred owl is mostly blind and is a good training bird for handling purposes (jessing, etc.). the bald eagle is turning out very nice... is able to accept multiple handlers/caretakers..most eagles only tolerate one person. and the screech owl is partially blind but seems to be improving...getting better at sitting on a glove rather than play dead bird lol. The GHO is our most senior bird now since our old RT hawk passed away to west nile virus.
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PHWyvern

I do transport for the State Park rehab. I've not had too much hands on, but get to see these beauties alot. I'm glad when some of them make it.

Don't know if I'll ever acctually apprentice. I did research it though and maybe one day. My info on the owls comes from "North American Falconry and Hunting Hawks". Always trying to learn.
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3.2 Ball python (Hoss, Little Man, Adam, Helen, and the new girl who gets named when she eats)
2.2 Corn snakes (Orlando and Legolas and the newbies)
0.1 King snake (Sidhe which sounds exactly like "she"
0.0.1 GTP (Kissy the Red)
1.1 Haitian Boa (Enkil and Akasha)

And bunches of furry pets

.......Jack Hubley lives close enough to me ........

he has hawks and falcons..........not sure what all

he also is one of the few that flies a GOLDEN EAGLE........

that'll do a kitty kitty........LOL..and a beagle.......
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you think????

I inadvertantly dropped the 0 - it's 10% not 1% I should learn to proof read. Thats where they get the 10% of the farmed animals that have to be re-released back into the wild.

But there are an estimated 10-20 million ball pythons hatched in the wild annually if a million or two of them survive every year then you aren't really looking at extinction by any means.

Sorry for the confusion.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

I didn't mean to jump on anyone per se.
It just goes back to accountabilty.
If someone states on a post that grass is blue, then your have twenty people saying they read online that grass is blue, so it must in fact be blue.
No one verifies anything anymore before they post. They read something, ASSUME it's true, and just regurges it here on the fourms. I for one, am tired of reading nonsense and endoudoes.
As for the DVD you talk about, I've not seen it. I have been told it is trash. So, since I've not seen it I won't comment on it (but, in fact I think I just did, in a negtive tone).
Ok, I'm done.........

Yes - I agree the DVd is garbage - but the study accompanying it is interesting.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

"...if only 1% made it to be one year old, then it would be an endangered speices"

They are(in captivity)...or were(I'm sure the numbers have changed since the morph explosion).

Sup Ron
...no dig.Just pondering the thought.
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

you want the rats right?

but you don't want to pay for them? or you don't want to pay the price that people are charging?

the way you have been raving about them i would think you'd be happy to pay $2 each.
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Stu
www.2amCreations.com
Not even remotely close to the most extensive collection of ball python morphs in captivity!

np
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Stu
www.2amCreations.com
Not even remotely close to the most extensive collection of ball python morphs in captivity!

hhhmmmm..I was told $3.........

.............all I want to know now is..?...how big are these furballs?..........mouse or rat sized???

and are they all pied like the few photos in here???

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you think????

most people if given the chance to completely control a product, and not let anyone else produce it, they would do it. It is illegal to have a monopoly in many areas of bussiness, but the people with these rats have found a way,(I know it is not a complete monopoly, several people have them) my hats off to them. The only problem I can see is whoever actually starts spreading the wealth and selling females, will rise far above the others in most peoples eyes, and a good reputation is always nice to have in this bussiness.