Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have read your book and would like your expert opinion i have a female 05 snow who wheighs 210 grams 33 inches she is very young however when placed with my large 03 male i am pretty sure i witnessed intercorse. Is she too small to be preg? She has put on some weight in the rear half but has been eating constantly. She shed 9 days ago and has constantly been in a nest box i have provided . Thank you for your time.

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1.1 Columbian red tails (Zeus, Athena)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

Why place them together and THEN decide to worry about if she is too young? She is too young, too small, and underweight. But it is possible that she could lay succesfully.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

I am not worried at all. And i am prepared to take care of eggs if it did happen.
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1.1 Columbian red tails (Zeus, Athena)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

You ought to be worried. Underweight/underage/undersized females have a higher incidence of eggbinding and she could die.

Eggs are the least of your problems right now and there's nothing you can do now except hope that all goes well.

300g, 3 years old, 3 feet long. If you want to be absolutely sure that your female is ready to produce eggs, that's what she should have been. As it is, you've exposed her to a potentially fatal risk.

Yes, she could well be gravid.

Good luck.

I have to back up phiber here. You said

"she is very young however" and
"RE: Kathy plz hlp?"

Yes she is young. And you implied you had concerns. That's the way I read it also. Size does matter, but a snake is barely a year old? It's like breeding 5 week old guinea pigs, they may be functional, but a female is not fully developed. IMHO.

I wouldn't be worried about the eggs, I'd be worried about a young female breeding and making it through laying eggs. Let me be clear, I'm wishing you anything bad, and I really hope she is not gravid, and she goes another year. If she has eggs I first hope shes ok, and the eggs are good.

I guess in short, just because an animal is of size and CAN breed does not mean it is the best thing for it, or better yet, the best time in the animals life.

AND, just so you know I have some what of a reverse situation. I have a very large older female hognose, I thought of retiring her. But she is so active, and an insane feeder, I thought maybe one more year. I may have made a mistake? Time will tell, but I'll admit to taking that chase

Good luck as always, I all works out ok
tom

>>Why place them together and THEN decide to worry about if she is too young? She is too young, too small, and underweight. But it is possible that she could lay succesfully.
>>-----
>>0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
>>1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
>>1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
>>.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
>>0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

I hate to kill the point you were making, but guinea pigs have to be bred young or their pelvic syphysis will fuse and they won't be able to give birth naturally. They would have more troubles and be more likely to have issues if bred older. Most places try to breed the guinea pigs young at least once, so that if someone buys them and not knowingly adds a male later in life, her pelvis won't be fused, and she can have babies safely. This info came from a Vet Tech teacher that I know.

On another note, I totally agree that this poster should be worried. I'd be. It's just a good example of someone getting into the hobby and "playing around" before they know what they are doing. For the snakes sake and for the sake of possible future babies, I hope the snake will not become gravid, or this person does a lot of research before the snake produces the eggs.
Just my opinion
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**********Misty**********
I haven't lost my mind.... it's backed up on disk somewhere.

2.3.0 bearded dragons
0.1.0 water dragon
1.3.0 leopard geckos
12.20.0 corn snakes
1.1.0 jungle corns
2.2.0 king snakes
1.1.0 false water cobras
1.1.0 royal (Ball) pythons
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa
1.0.0 Sinaloan milk snake
0.1.0 Tri-Hybrid milk snake
0.1.0 rat snake
0.0.2 prairie ringneck snakes
0.1.0 chilean rose hair tarantula
1.1.0 emperor scorpions
1.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrots
0.1.0 German Shepherd hybrid dog

if there are some other exceptions, maybe even stranger than guinea pigs, lol!

And back in the "good ol' days", we had to play around to find out what worked and what didn't work. And of course we still have to experiment to learn new methods that even work better than what we do now. Herpers just getting into the hobby now can use the plethora of books and Internet sources to tap into info I never dreamed would be available when I first started. The hobby / industry has already advanced further than I would have ever thought just a decade or two ago.

I was just trying to say being able is not the same as being good for the animal.

G-pigs certainly follow this rule. I've bred far more mammals than snakes. So I used g-pigs for an example.
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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

Yes I'm well aware of a g-pis need to breed, but 4 weeks is a long way from 9 months to a year. Depending on that debate.
-----
Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.2 1 MIA In the house I hope
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
2 Okeettes I think? 1.1 youngens
ochrocephala oratrix 0.0.1? Adult, and a killer!
ochrocephala auropalliata 0.0.1? Adult
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
-----
tom

www.herpzilla.com

in the '80s, there weren't any books or much info. So I wanted to know just how young they would breed. I did raise up at least one female really fast and bred her (and produced fertile eggs) when she was less than one year old. She didn't have any problems that I remember. But I have bred other small, young that were actually at least a year older than she was. And I have to say that I do see an increase in egg laying problems in the younger, smaller females. But not all have problems.

Now, I occasionally do breed a small female if I am really impatient for a particular project to come to fruition, and if she seems really nice and fat. In that case, the risk may be elevated slightly, but not too much. I have to evaluate whether the risk seems too great in each case. I usually just try to be patient and wait one more year, until she is truly ready.

As mentioned earlier, you will just have to observe her and see what happens. Chances are pretty good that it will go according to plan, since she is nice and big for her age, even though very young. However, my feeling is that for the long term health of the snake, it is better to avoid early pregancy.

Good luck!

As someone who just went through this last month, I hope everything goes well with your female. Ours was an accidental pregnancy (they were caged together since hatchling and we never seperated in time) and our female laid six eggs and was eggbound with four. Several vet trips later (aspirated the eggs) she pulled through okay. If we ever decide to try to breed intentionaly it won't be for at least 3 years. (She is a year and a half and a third of the size of our male)
Good luck, May

Thank you all for your expert opinions i am fairly new to corns but have had 2 boas for 2 years. Thank you all for the imput
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1.1 Columbian red tails (Zeus, Athena)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

I have seen many corns in the wild at that size gravid. The age is a factor but the caging and the temp gradient is the thing to be addressed. If the caging and temps are right, the snake will be fine. If it is in to small of a cage (drawer) and has been forced to sit on the high end of its temp range because that is the cool end of its tank... well those snakes have other problems. The other end is the small cage that is to cool. Same answer, there is going to be problems.

I agree the snake is to young to breed by my ethics but you guys need to understand that it may happen in the wild. I have got snakes up to size at 9 months but I never had the guts to try it. There are some guys out there that breed early in the year so that they can try to breed the hatchlings the following year. They get babies earlier and have two rooms for breeders so one group goes later in the year with the 11-12 month old females. The guy who told me about this said he has not had problems unless the snake was fat.

Again I don't advocate it. I have 3 year old virgins in my collection. I just don't like seeing a young person come on here and get attacked. Poor judgment maybe, but he is not alone in the practice.

Maybe the question being asked should be what kind of setup allowed you to get a female to that size in that time? What was the feeding regime? Size of tank?

Later Jason

That is a beauty of an abbott! And you are right. I may have come off harsh. But these things really irritate me. I am unsure if the original poster intentionally bred or not. That is my fualt for not asking. But that is one of my biggest pet peeves when somebody intentionally does something that could very easily harm their pet and THEN ask if it is a good idea. Again not directed at the original poster. But some people need to THINK!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

Well I just think that we may be missing out on how to raise our animals in a better way. The rack systems that everybody uses now seem to be lacking in my opinion. I think back to when I had less snakes and less of a lot of other things that are taking up my time now and I was getting some snakes to size in a year. You need the genetics in the snake to do it but you also need the right setup.

It seems that we are going in the wrong direction in the hobby as a whole. When a new person has success, the size of the yearling is a success, we need to think why?? What did they do?? Beginners luck is what some say but I think it has to do with more time and interest in the one snake. I don't think the time spent holding or watching the snake is what did it. I think the attention to detail is what did it. Trying to get it all right. As we do it year after year we lose some of that detailed attention.

Maybe it is just me.

Later Jason

Let have some details of you setup. Tank size, heat source. feeding schedule. What did you do to get your girl to size.

later Jason

Okay to answer a few questions. I did intentinally breed but rather was unsure of the sexes and heard females could be housed together i placed the two together ratherly stupidly and left them together for a couple days. As soon as i seen the actual sex i seperated and read up in kathys book and realized i could have second clutches so i kept putting them together once per week. Also to get her to size she is a fierce corn and would readily eat 3 live hoppers in a row even back in november. Now 3 mice every 10 days no prob. I use the second biggest ecoterra terranium with a sun glo 100 watt bulb inside. I will post my entries of my journal and a pic of tank and her today.
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1.1 Columbian red tails (Zeus, Athena)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)