Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone else find it a little bit odd/suspicious that some adds on kingsnake advertise $5000-$10000 BPs without having pictures of the snakes in the add itself? It seems to me like the people who use these types of advertisements don't want to display their animals to the public. Perhaps their animals are not what they say they are? I mean, if they've got thousands of dollars worth of BPs you'd think they'd be able to afford a digital camera right?

Maybe I'm overlooking something here...

I don't find that as odd as some of the photoshopped ads. I have recently seen an add for an axanthic ball python that is VERY silver, which is okay, except for the fact the aspen bedding it is laying on is a silvery color as well. I think most people that are not posting pictures are trying to peak interest and get you to email them. It seems to me like you would have a lot of people email you just wanting to see the pic, not really interested in purchasing animals. Just my opinion
Will Wohlers

Ive lost money, not much but still lost it. Ive seen the same lady(different name)pretty run a couple other ads too. There is nothing you can say, I cant come put a post up about it here it gets deleted.

For now, if I cant drive and pick it up then give you the money, i dont buy it.

Be careful about who/what you buy. I'm as small time as they get in terms of breeders here, but even so I've sent snakes all over the country to people I've never met before. I even conducted some transactions, usually hundreds of dollars worth of business, without ever speaking to the buyer in person. I've always wondered..."wow, this guy just paypaled me 750 bucks and doesn't know me from adam". How do they know that they can trust me?

Well, here's what I can offer them...references. Yes, I know references can be fudged, but thats one good way to ensure that the people you buy from are on the up and up. I've maintained an e-mail list of all the people who have bought from me in the past (I work very hard to make a "customer" happy. I represent my animals exactly how they are, I pack them meticulously for shipping, include detailed feeding records, genetic backgound and photographs, etc.). If someone asks, I sent them the list of names and e-mails. I know that occasionally my references have been contacted.

I know you've been burned before, but if you do your homework you can buy from both large, well known folks, and the little guys like me, with confidence.

P.S...having said all that, I've personally only bought on-line from VPI, Ralph, and Ben Seigel. Not that I wouldn't try another little guy, just the "big boys" just happened to have what I wanted at the time.

For me, I live in florida and there isnt anything I cant drive and go pick up.

You are dead on with the references! A happy customer is the best thing a business can have.

Where do you live in Florida Gary? There are plenty of breeders around. There are atleast 4 that I know of in the Tampa area. I drive over 2 hours from Palm Bay to pick up snakes in Tampa from my source.
-----
0.0.1 Jayapura GTP
1.1 Pastel 50% het Ghost BPs
1.0 Beard Line Ghost BP
0.1 Female het Bell Yellow Ghost
0.4 Normal BPs
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
0.0.1 Cali King
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milk
1.0 Crested Gecko

Yep, thats my point. There isnt anything I cant just get in the car and go get. I live up by Ocala, Im within 4 hours to every breeder in the state!

Florida is great!

Who's your source, must be a great guy with great snakes, friendly as can be and one hell of a breeder...

Neil Golli
info@gollireptiles.com

Now that his snakes are starting to breed finally I guess we'll figure out whether or not he's a great breeder. I really just come for the dogs though.
-----
0.0.1 Jayapura GTP
1.1 Pastel 50% het Ghost BPs
1.0 Beard Line Ghost BP
0.1 Female het Bell Yellow Ghost
0.4 Normal BPs
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
0.0.1 Cali King
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milk
1.0 Crested Gecko

And don't think that people don't check up on those references because they do. I bought a couple of snakes from Joe before AND I've been contacted as a reference. (don't worry Joe, I gave you high marks) It may be a bit more difficult to sell those first few snakes, but once you have a number of happy customers under your belt it gets a lot easier. Just make sure you give out valid references because people DO check up on them.

Mark

>>Be careful about who/what you buy. I'm as small time as they get in terms of breeders here, but even so I've sent snakes all over the country to people I've never met before. I even conducted some transactions, usually hundreds of dollars worth of business, without ever speaking to the buyer in person. I've always wondered..."wow, this guy just paypaled me 750 bucks and doesn't know me from adam". How do they know that they can trust me?
>>
>>Well, here's what I can offer them...references. Yes, I know references can be fudged, but thats one good way to ensure that the people you buy from are on the up and up. I've maintained an e-mail list of all the people who have bought from me in the past (I work very hard to make a "customer" happy. I represent my animals exactly how they are, I pack them meticulously for shipping, include detailed feeding records, genetic backgound and photographs, etc.). If someone asks, I sent them the list of names and e-mails. I know that occasionally my references have been contacted.
>>
>>I know you've been burned before, but if you do your homework you can buy from both large, well known folks, and the little guys like me, with confidence.
>>
>>P.S...having said all that, I've personally only bought on-line from VPI, Ralph, and Ben Seigel. Not that I wouldn't try another little guy, just the "big boys" just happened to have what I wanted at the time.

LOL - Not saying references aren't important - they are - but really - a person could easily give you a list of their friends to call or email for references as they could people who have really bought snakes from them. Happens in all aspects of life - from resumes to rental agreements - the bogus reference is alive and well. If they are scammers you'll never really know until the s t snake reaches your door (or doesn't prove).

Best references are other herpers people that are active in the community - I'd rather get one good reference from someone that I know, than ten of people I have never heard of.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

Sure people could give fake references, thats why you have to be selective of the questions you ask those references. When you have the choice between someone with no references and someone with, who are you going to be more likely to buy from?

And what do you mean by 'active in the community'? Do you mean the online internet community? LOL, I've been coming to Kingsnake.com ever since Jeff announced on the usenet newsgroup rec.pets.herp the creation of a new website devoted to gray banded kingsnakes. And in that time I've seen some of the most 'Active' posters turn out to be some of the biggest con artists. Fortunatly though they only seem to last a year or two but some of them have been so 'active' that you'd swear they'd been around forever. Frankly I'd be more likely to trust someone who may post only occasionally but whos name I remember seeing over several years.

Frankly there are scammers and cons in any industry. There are several tools that people can use to protect themselves and following up on references is just one of them. Sure they can be faked, but I don't think you should be so quick to dismiss their usefulness.

Mark

>>LOL - Not saying references aren't important - they are - but really - a person could easily give you a list of their friends to call or email for references as they could people who have really bought snakes from them. Happens in all aspects of life - from resumes to rental agreements - the bogus reference is alive and well. If they are scammers you'll never really know until the s t snake reaches your door (or doesn't prove).
>>
>>Best references are other herpers people that are active in the community - I'd rather get one good reference from someone that I know, than ten of people I have never heard of.
>>-----
>>Tosha
>>
>>"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"
>>
>>
>>
>>6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
>>1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
>>0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
>>0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
>>0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
>>0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
>>2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
>>0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
>>0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

LOL - I just meant that people should take references with a grain of salt - just because someone can provide you 10 names of people who think they are great doesn't necessarily mean they are legit - I can think of a half a dozen known big time scammers that can provide that kind of information and have it plastered all over their various "sites" - as well as the BOI - but you wouldn't want to buy from them.

And no I don't feel that the internet community is necessarily synonymous with the ball python community. Most of the people I know that have been in the ball python hobby for decades have nothing to do with any of the forums, internet sales, or the politics that are generally found in the "online" community. Tho I must say that, to a degree, I would trust the opinions of many of the people I've met through KS than a strangers.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

How are the pair you got from me? I was hoping to prove out their mom this season, but I'm not sure its going to happen. With the birth of my first son and the purchase of a new house, I was a bit neglectful in getting my male babies up to size. The one I had chosen to breed back to mom was a bit of a picky eater and has only gotten up in the 500-600 gram size range. I never power feed, but I could have easily gotten another few hundred grams on him. So far, he's been in with his mom several times this winter, but I have not witnessed a cop. I could have easily missed it (again...very busy). I'll let you know if anything develops.

Well, you're doing better then I am. Of the pair I got from you the male is 490g and the female is 410g It's not that they don't eat, they were eating fine (well until recently when I moved them up to different size tubs) But even when they were eating regularily they just seemed to grow more slowly then my others of the same age. Thats fine though, I'm not in any rush to grow them up fast. They'll probably put on a growth spurt once they get used to their new tubs and start eating again.

Mark

>>How are the pair you got from me? I was hoping to prove out their mom this season, but I'm not sure its going to happen. With the birth of my first son and the purchase of a new house, I was a bit neglectful in getting my male babies up to size. The one I had chosen to breed back to mom was a bit of a picky eater and has only gotten up in the 500-600 gram size range. I never power feed, but I could have easily gotten another few hundred grams on him. So far, he's been in with his mom several times this winter, but I have not witnessed a cop. I could have easily missed it (again...very busy). I'll let you know if anything develops.

I like the ones that say breeder adult male ball,,,,400 grams, come on, a 400 gram ball is not an adult. Also saw proven breeder FEMALE 800 grams,,,,WHAT?

Dave

Not only that, but expensive ball pythons are stolen from time to time...yet another reason why someone wouldn't post a pic.

Tim

Third Eye

I posted about this too a week ago and it was deleted...Oh well.
-----
Jeremy Conrad
_____________

...Can't...stop...must...get...more...balls...

Sometimes the pics are a little too big to post on kingsnake and I dont know how to resize them. I hope I dont have the fishy ad you are speaking of, and yes I do have a lot of high end animals, everything and more in the ads

Mike Brooks
TNS Reptiles
Long Island, NY
631-732-4233

resizing pictures is easy. Most digital cameras come with some form of photo editing software. Nikon has Nikon view etc. These programs do allow you to edit pictures, save as jpeg, etc. If your digital camera didn't come with similar software, there are all kinds of programs avaiable online to let you do it. Most early version of photoshop, photosuite, etc are available free. Also, other programs and some image viewers allow you to do basic photo editing, like resizing etc. Irfanview is good for this and it allows you to save into jpg, gif and other image formats.

Windows XP also has a built in photo editor as well. If you have no other image viewers available on your computer, connecting your camera to the comptuer usually is enough to trigger the windows media/image wizard and walk you through downloading the pics from your camera and it will give you the option to open the folder they are in. If not sure what to do, the windows help file is pretty useful and it can walk you through resizing pictures.
-----
PHLdyPayne

If you are unsure of someone online, and your first instinct is to run away from a deal, probably a good idea. Ask questions. There was an Axanthic for sale a few weeks ago, and I thought it look bogus, and emailed them about it. They said it came from a 50% or 66% possible het. I asked them how, if they got a visible Axanthic from a Possible het, then it would not be a possible het. The person replyed that they had an illness, and could not remeber, and would ask their spouse. I never heard back. They could be totally legit, but they never got back to me, and had some red flag answers.