Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could inform me as to how long a strongyloid egg and larve can "live" in the environment.

I got some wc ball pythons from a breeder and they showed up with strongyloides, thank god for quarantine. I'm treating them with panacur, but need to know how long it will take before I know I'm in the clear (in terms of re-infection). I'm bleaching everything, but I'm sure it's not possible to kill 100% of the eggs with the bleach.

Also, does anyone know any specifices about the life cycle of strongyloides.

How long does it take for an ingested egg to turn into an adult?

How long does it take a mature female to release eggs of her own?

Any help with any of these questions will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your help and time.

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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, and Screaming Fat-Tails

Before the discussion continues and because this has been a source of confusion in other groups.... were your animals diagnosed with "strongyloides" or "strongyles".

T.B

There is a difference, even though both belong to the same superfamily.

The strongyles are basically of two types, large strongyles (bloodworms) and small (encysting) strongyles. Their life-cycles differ from Strongyloids (Threadworms).

>>There is a difference, even though both belong to the same superfamily.
>>
>>The strongyles are basically of two types, large strongyles (bloodworms) and small (encysting) strongyles. Their life-cycles differ from Strongyloids (Threadworms).

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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, and Screaming Fat-Tails

>>There is a difference, even though both belong to the same superfamily.

Nematode taxonomy is always in a state of flux but the classification that I am familiar with is this one which puts the two in completely separate scientific Orders.

T.B
Nematode classification

According to that chart, they have been reclassified. I guess somebody recognized the differences. That does appear to be more up-to-date information than mine. I can't keep up with the Taxonomy any more, with parasites or with reptiles. I have a hard enough time remembering what I learned about them years ago, much less re-learning it every few years.

Strongyloid life cycles are a little more complex than most other nematodes.

First off, in ingested egg will not cause infection. Infection is caused by either ingestion of larvae in one of the infective stages, or by infective larvae penetrating the skin whereby they are transported to the lungs, travel up to the throat and are then swallowed to develop into adult worms within the GI tract.

Strongyloids have a direct life-cycle, meaning they do not need an intermediate host. They can have two different types of life-cycles. The eggs aren deposited in feces from a host or are laid by free-living worms and hatch in soil. The larvae can either molt twice (L1 and L2 stages), find a host and develop through the L3 and L4 stages then into hermaphrodite adults (which will then reproduce and lay eggs without the need of finding another to mate with) within the host , or they can molt 4 times (L1 thru L4 stages) and develop into males and females which will then mate and lay eggs. Which life-cycle they take depends entirely on whether a suitable host is found before the L3 stage. The larvae produced by free-living Strongyloids can also take either type of life cycle depending on the availability of a host.

Development in either case into adult reproducing worms (free-living males and females or hermaphrodites in a host) from oviposition takes about 28 days.

So these larva hatch and turn into free living adults, which then lay eggs again... How long can this go on with no host? It seems as if they would die from starvation eventually.

How tough is it to get rid of strongyloides?

It sounds extremely tough... If I don't kill 100% of the eggs/larva then they will just keep churning out new generations. I am very careful not to cross contaminate, I use latex gloves, etc... But that doesn't seem like it will help if these larva are crawling all over the place on their own.

Any additional info and tips will be greatly appreciated... I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the parasite so I have the best chance of treating it successfully.

Do any of you know if Nolvasan will kill strongyloid eggs/larva?

Thanks again for your help.
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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, and Screaming Fat-Tails

Cage cleaning and sanitization are at least as important as any other aspect of treatment. Nolvasan should kill any larvae, but may not kill eggs. A 10% solution of Chlorine bleach should do the trick, too. The important thing is not to let any feces remain in the cage at all. I would advise using newspaper for substrate during treatment, also.

Strongyloids can keep reproducing for years without a host. The larvae are fairly motile and will move around up and down blades of grass looking for a host throughout the L1 and L2 stages. If none is found, they will go back to the ground, molt 2 more times and reproduce.

Proper dosing of Panacur should effectively eliminate them from the animals provided proper cage cleaning.

I understand that I need to keep the cages clean... I took all the aspen out and am now using newspaper. Each time they soil the newspaper I remove it as soon as I notice (within 18 hours) and bleach the enclosure and water bowl.

Is there a risk of the strongyloides being in the carpet and climbing up the racks to re-infect? I'm sure that some eggs have fallen to the ground at some point in time. Might have to go rent a steam cleaner.

I still don't understand how they could last for years with no host, food or water source?

Thanks again for any info.

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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Ball Pythons, Red Striped Leos, and Screaming Fat-Tails

A few years ago I received a group of ball pythons. I checked them with my microscope. They had worms and protozoa. The protozoa were easy to get rid of, the worms were a different matter. I dosed them with Panacur several times and re-checked them with the microscope. They still had worms. I tried several dose strengths and regimens. I might as well have been dosing with sugar water. I mentioned the trouble I was having with a friend who keeps horses. She said she wasn't surprised since Panacur doesn't kill the worms it only inhibits them until they're eliminated in the feces. Horses tend to eliminate many more times than a snake. She suggested I try Strongid since it kills the worms. I'm pleased to say it works extremely well and I've been using it ever since.

Panacur doesn't work? Doesn't work for what? What species of worms were you trying to treat? Did you identify the eggs by species, or did you just see eggs and start using Panacur? How did you determine the proper dosage and dosing intervals? What were the protozoans you were treating and what did you eliminate them with? If you can't specifically identify the eggs/oocysts that you see, then treatment is at best a hit and miss affair.

I'm sure that Hoechst-Roussel didn't run the tests and say "Damn, that Panacur stuff didn't kill a thing..let's get it on the market, quick!" I've used Panacur many, many times as well as Strongid, Ivomec, and Droncit. Used properly and in conjunction with good cage sanitation they all work quite well for what they are intended.

Panacur works quite well for most intestinal nematodes as well as some protozoans. And, by the way, it DOES kill them. Strongid also works very well for some intestinal nematodes. Which one you use depends on what you are going after.

Just because it didn't work for you on one occasion doesn't mean it never works. There are a lot of variables, including dosing, species of parasite, cage sanitation (reinfection), dosing interval, method of delivery, etc. Panacur doesn't work particularly well from my experience if you put it in the animal's food, for instance. That seems to have a deleterious effect on absorbtion. It is much better delivered by stomach tube. If you are fighting Strongyloids, nothing will work if you don't keep the cage scrupulously clean because they will quickly reinfect the animal from infective larvae in the feces in the bottom of the cage. Same deal with Coccidians.

In heavy infestations, elimination isn't an overnight thing with any drug. It's not like you dose once with any drug and all the worms, eggs and larvae are killed instantly. It may be that you actually reduced the load each time you dosed with Panacur, but because you weren't doing differential flotation and egg counts you didn't realize it. Then you switched to Strongid and just finished the job that the Panacur would have finished anyway if you had kept up dosing.