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My first chameleon and questions

captotterboy Mar 19, 2006 09:35 AM

I did it. I got my first chameleon. It is a sub adult male veiled that my fience named "Charlie" (because he's in the trees... put it together, you'll get it) He has fantastic sunburst coloration. Now i know i am not supposed to handle him at all for a while until he gets adjusted, but he actually seems to like being handled. I was in the cage this morning putting in a bowel of mealworms for him. He actually came over to my hand and crawled onto it and sat there while i was working. When i offered him back to his tree, he very gently crawled off. Which brings to mind my first question... is this normal for a docile chameleon, or is this behavior typical of a problem i dont know about? also, i am not using a drip system, i am just going to mist morning and night. SHould i mist all the plants and just be careful not to mist charlie, or should i mist in one place and train him to go to that one spot when he is thirsty?

as for food, i put 6 mealworms in a bowel and i dusted four medium size crickets for him and put them in there. I figure the mealworms are just a snack and i can keep 3 or 4 in a bowel every other day. How many crickets should i be giving him and at what days?

the cage itself is 30x18x30. One half of the cage is completely covered by a live umbrella plant that allows him to be directly under both my 18inch flourecent uvb bulb and a heat bulb if he wants. I also have a vine going up the other side of the tank that leads to a live pothos at the bottom. Please let me know if everything is alright.

Thanks,
Jeff

Replies (18)

captotterboy Mar 19, 2006 09:39 AM

I just looked in the cage and saw that he had eaten all four mealworms in the bowel (as well as the 2 he ate last night when i put him in his cage for the first time). i also saw him eat two of the four crickets this morning. i dont know if he has gotten to the others yet.

He really is cool,
jeff

anafranil Mar 19, 2006 10:19 AM

Hi and welcome to the hobby,
I have spotted a few things that I want to tell you about,first of all no chameleon likes being handled.What you see when he rushes to your hand is not friendlyness but aggression,mine does the same always when I open his cage.In fact I rush misting before he jumps on me.I think you should handle him as little as possible.You should also mist him at noon too,I think is better.
Regarding to feeding I think you should not dust your inscects that much,once or twice a week is better.As you mentioned your self mealworms alone are poor diet.The two most common items are crickets and superworms.The first can be let loose in the cage and any left uneaten should be picked next day and returned to were you keep them,superworms can be offered in a cup below the basking perch.There's always handfeeding of course but this does not work for all.You should also take care to gut load your inscects.For the amount of food I'll tell you my opinion regarding numbers,5 inscects a day will be fine I guess,but feeding chameleons is something you learn over time.
Also about your setup,you should make use of the whole cage space by putting taller plants,branches and vines.
Also keep posting your questions,there's lot of people here to help you

anafranil Mar 19, 2006 10:29 AM

I forgot to mention 2 important things,your cage is far too small for a veiled and it is a lot better if you have a dripper.It is prefered to mist all of the cage but not on Charlie

captotterboy Mar 19, 2006 10:53 AM

Hey,
ok, thats good to know about the agressive thing. As i was putting mealworms in the cage (with him perched on my hand) he was ready to grab them right out of my hand. So i guess hes not to adverse to hand feeding... if i was ever so inclined. the plant i have in there runs from the pot all the way up to the top of the cage, and i have other plants running from the ground up to the top of the pot. So he has plants running the full range of the cage, including cold and hot spots, bright and shade spots, wet and dry spots, evrything. also, i have the mealworm bowel about halfway up the cage in a place where he can find it very easily. I gut load my crickets with calcium fortified gelatin and the flukers orange slices with a tiny pit of calcium dust sprinkled over top.

Ooo, another question i just thought of. I know that wax worms are bad in large ammounts (not to mention they STINK), but the chameleons love them. Should i offer him a few once every other week for a treat, or skip them altogther and focus on the superworms and crickets? also, should i just put a whole bunch of mealworms in the bowel and just let him munch when he feels like it, or should i regiment it the same way i regiment the crikets?

also, will the umbrella plant be enough for veggies or should i feed him a bit of kale i have in my freezer?

Thanks for the help, right now he is perched near the mealworm bowel looking for another snack?
Jeff

dianedfisher Mar 19, 2006 11:26 AM

Congrats on your purchase! Sounds like you got a pretty docile and well trained fellow. Easy on the waxworms-kind of like ince cream cones for chameleons, but they can be offered as a treat every so often. From what I've read, if you purchased a sub-adult, you're at the point where you need to watch his food intake to keep him from becoming overweight. So don't feed him everything he can eat-just what he needs. And introducing some kale or fresh greens into his diet won't hurt at all if he'll eat them. Can't wait to see your pics. Is he predominantly yellow or orange in coloration? Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago

captotterboy Mar 19, 2006 11:45 AM

I seriously need a digital camera... ill just have to borrow one.

Hes a neon orange and green color. His sire had fantastic reds and oranges too. I was worried when i got him home last night because he was a pale white in color, but he is a nice healthy glow now and exploring every part of his new home. i think part of this kinda stems from me trying to adjust the 18inch uvb flourecent light to maximize it. FOr a cage this size i think i am going to have to get another 18inch or a clamp light with more uvb in it (i already have one clamp light with a 60w heat bulb). It looks rather dark in places in there now in places i dont think it should be dark.

Should the kale be a substitute for charlie munching on the umbrella plant, or should it be a umbrella plant supliment?

Is behavior such as hanging upside down from the top of the cage and walking around the front a bad sign, or is it just him exploring/hunting/ect?

the funny thing is, i thought i had asked all the questions i needed to ask before i got one. Than i got one and got it home and had a whole new set of questions... is this what fatherhood is like... ah crap

jeff

dianedfisher Mar 19, 2006 04:48 PM

He sounds absolutely stunning. Ahhh...the fatherhood syndrome...it's different after they're actually in your possesion isn't it? Suddenly you're ENTIRELY responsible for a tiny life and if you have even half a heart, you're already in love with the little guy.
Yes, it is entirely normal for him to walk around upside down-annoying to his owner, but normal. I kept taking Valentino down because I was afraid he'd burn his feet by walking under the basking spot...but he survived and so did I. He never does it now-1 month later. Just try (and it's hard and peeking IS allowed) to leave him alone for a few days to settle in undisturbed except for hydrating and feeding him. Again, congrats. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago

captotterboy Mar 19, 2006 05:18 PM

Just in case, what do burn spots look like? Charlie has a couple of strange black marks on his side and i want to make sure they are not from burning.

Jeff

dianedfisher Mar 20, 2006 07:36 AM

I can't answer that. I use an infrared temp gun to make sure there aren't any really hot spots in my enclosures, but that's pretty hard to guarantee when you have a tiny, thin-skinned chameleon hanging upside down under a spot light designed to pinpoint light and heat to a small area. LOL I would surmise that if the spots you are concerned about harden and peel then burns were likley the cause, but they could just be normal pattern variations. Keep an eye on them. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago

anafranil Mar 19, 2006 02:58 PM

I think that you are pretty much ok about your kind of setup,I might have misunderstood something,
about the mealworms I guess it would be better to hand feed him and not with large quantities.
You could also introduce some hibiscus and pothos to your enclosure since are appropriate for eating,also pay attention with the overweight problem you've been told,it's quite serious.When you feel like ready I think you should upgrade to a larger cage too,
I hope that helps

kinyonga Mar 19, 2006 01:03 PM

You said..."he actually seems to like being handled. I was in the cage this morning putting in a bowel of mealworms for him. He actually came over to my hand and crawled onto it and sat there while i was working"...when a chameleon comes out of the cage voluntarily its not necessarily that he likes being handled...its more likely IMHO that he wants to be out of the cage or views you as a place to perch or a way to get to something higher. It is not aggressive behavior to just come out of the cage onto you. You will definitely know when he is being aggressive...he will do any or all of the following...flatten his body vertically, hold one hand up close to his body, coil and uncoil his tail, brighten his colors, expand his gular pouch, gape, hiss, lunge at you.

You asked..."is this normal for a docile chameleon, or is this behavior typical of a problem i dont know about?"...there are some veileds that are "docile" by nature and there are some that are aggressive towards the keeper in a way that is idicative of protecting its terrritory. Just like people's personalities differ, so do chameleons'. Although its not IMHO good to handle chameleons a lot, I have never seen it to cause any problems to handle it once in a while IF the chameleon is willing.

You said..."i am not using a drip system, i am just going to mist morning and night. SHould i mist all the plants and just be careful not to mist charlie, or should i mist in one place and train him to go to that one spot when he is thirsty?"...hydration is important to the health of your chameleon. I use a dripper and still mist the cage. I leave the dripper in one place, positioned so that the drips fall onto the leaves of a plant. I mist near the chameleon's nose and gently spray until he is done drinking. It may take several minutes for him to start to drink and he may even be annoyed by the spray at first. Just be sure that you don't spray it in such a way that the water can be aspirated (go into his lungs). The more opportunity they have to drink, the better. Use warm water, not cold too. The dripper can be as simple as a deli cup with a tiny hole punched in the bottom of it so that it drips at the rate of 1 or 2 drips per second. Not keeping it well hydrated can lead to kidney problems.

Regarding feeding...a subadult needs only to be fed every second day. Until he reaches full adult size, as long as he isn't getting fat, there is no reason to skimp on the food. Variety is good, but go easy on the waxworms. I don't give them to the chameleons more than once a month. You can use crickets, silkworms, superworms, roaches, tomato horn worms that were NOT raised on tomato plants, etc.

Dusting the insects and UVB exposure and gutloading go hand in hand...how much and how often the D3 is given depends on the UVB exposure your chameleon gets. He needs calcium, and if raised under artificial lights, calcium/D3. Depending on the gutloading, he needs vitamins/minerals too. Be careful with the D3 and the preformed vitamin A because they can build up in the system. Vitamin A from beta carotene can't. There is a good gutload on the ADCHAM website.

Plants should be non-toxic and well washed (both sides of the leaves) since veileds eat vegetation. I cover the soil with stones that are too big for the chameleon to ingest so that they can't eat the soil and become impacted....a good reason for not using substrate too.

Veileds can be fed fresh greens (such as kale, collards, dandelion greens, mustard greens, etc.) and fruits (such as wedges of apple, pear, pieces of melon, etc.) and veggies (such as diced red pepper, squash, sweet potato, carrot, etc.) and even non-toxic flowers that come from fertilizer/pesticide-free places. They will/can eat pothos and leaves of other non-toxic plants too.

You said..."the cage itself is 30x18x30"...that size is fine but bigger is almost always better. I have kept veileds in a similar sized cage and they have lived to be over 7 years of age.

Good luck with your chameleon!

dcmander Mar 19, 2006 02:09 PM

Looks like all your questions were answered except that YES it is very normal for chams to hang upside down on the top of the cage. It is probably just him exploring.

AND WE NEED PIX!

Does your veiled look anything like mine ?

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1.0 Sunburst Veiled Chameleon -- Dexter
1 year old

captotterboy Mar 20, 2006 09:52 AM

No, hes got more orange. I will attempt to get my hands on a digital camera sometime this week. As soon as i do i will post several pictures... if i can get him to sit still long enough.

Jeff

captotterboy Mar 19, 2006 02:51 PM

Cool, thanks for the help.
I noticed a gap in the plants that was not an original design of the cage, but became apparent when i had to adjust some stuff before i put charlie in the cage (newb mistakes, mostly. fixed now) I just placed a large pothos in that spot for him to eat/munch/climb.

Since feeding seems to be the place that i am most unclear, i do have another question. Instead of giving him large meals every other day, would it be good to maybe give him a few crickets every other day, and a few superworms the days in between with a couple of mealwors every now and than just for a light snack? i think this would still stimulate a more natural hunting for crikets, combined with having less crickets in the cage that can maybe get lost in there, and is easier on my wallet.

let me know,
Jeff

ps. what was the url for that site that has the feeding article?

captotterboy Mar 20, 2006 09:59 AM

i thought of another question thismorning. I ran out and got him some superworms to eat... but he doesnt seem interested and i think it might be because they are too big for him. Would it be good to maybe cut the worm in half, and if charlie doesn't eat it within a half hour, take it out? Or should i just wait the rest of the day and try that tongiht?

Jeff

WillHayward Mar 20, 2006 11:59 AM

The superworms will die if cut in half. Infact they die pretty easy, which isnt that great since they are quite canabalistic What is up with that combination...?

If your chameleon is still small, you might consider using mealworms. However I think mealworms are only good for a bit of chitin once and a while, silkworms are something a chameleon can not refuse, and butterworms are very nutritious as well.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

Captotterboy Mar 20, 2006 12:52 PM

Hey,
I think i figured out what happened. I had put two worms in the tray and that might have been a little intimidating for him. I took one of the worms out and he eagerly gobbled up the one that was left. Ill give him the second one tonight. I drop a cuople of mealworms in the bowel for him to snack on every now and than. He also seems to enjoy taking them out of my hand while i am trying to put them in the bowel.. which is fun in and of itself.

Jeff

WillHayward Mar 20, 2006 11:03 PM

Well tehre you go. Just remember that they aren't the most nutritious feeder avaliable.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

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