Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can anyone recommend a sexing method for juvenile PTS that is fairly reliable? I'm not afraid to spend a few bucks to have procedures done professionally, so fire away!

Thanks for the help!

-Z

PTS are notoriously hard to sex. I don't know of ANY way to sex an immature (juvenile) PTS. You can make a good guess at an adult's sex by head shape and abdomen shape and behavior around other adults usually gives very good clues. Brian posted some notes on a head to abdomen ratio that was 75% accurate for my known adults when I did the measuring and dividing (read back a week or so to find this).
Juveniles all tend to look like little females to me- they all have more narrow heads and cute little fat bellies (if well fed!)
Probing PTS is supposedly very risky for the males, and I don't think the males drop seminal plugs either.
If you want a juvenile- you will have to be patient about it's sex- like a few years worth of patience.
cheers, Jess b

My vet has many years in the reptile world....worked at Houston Zoo..now has his on practice.....He is able to do a manual(popping).....I would not try this and only have him do it.....sometimes we have found sperm plugs in males....but you said this one is young......If I drop a old shed from another male in the cage of the skink in question and if it's a male he will freak out,but this doesn't always work....Chris

Chris,

Thanks for sharing that info on the male shed skin method.

The next time I see skin, I'll test your method and let you know.

Thanks again,
Jean

Hi Jess,

I find the same with baby Monkey skinks-Don't even go there. Probing in adults is inconclusive. The best bet is a combination (Behavior patterns, Chris's Dead male shed skin presentation method, Brian's ratio analysis, etc). Together-not individually, this the best approach for now.

Speaking of which, Has anyone heard privately from Brian?
Maybe he has other methods or ideas not posted?

By the way, Thanks everyone for letting cool heads prevail lately. I almost left too! It was getting so bad. Next time, Take it off line and private when you feel like fighting, OK?

Thanks!
Jean

Thanks for the responses so far. It looks like I may just have to aquire the skink and hope it's the correct gender. I may see if my vet can evert hemipenes, but it sounds like that's a fairly unreliable method.

I'm not willing to test gender at this time by introducing a new shed to my current skink, as I generally practice fairly strict quarantine procedures with new animals. However, once the baby has passed quarantine it sounds like a good option (in conjunction with other tests mentioned).

Has anyone tried imaging techniques, like ultrasound? I just read an article about using this for gender determination in adult Gila monsters. Knowing very little about the development of lizard genitalia I don't know if this would be useful for an approximately 1 yr. old PTS.

Also, can anyone tell me if Brian's group, SFCRS, has a website? Google isn't turning anything up.

Again, thanks alot for your help.

-Z

Manual eversion "popping" I have seen done badly in a PTS. I would not personally choose to have this done on one of my own animals, unless under anesthesia. They are just too strong, and I feel there is too much risk. Even a little risk of damage is too much for me as they are so rare.
As for ultrasound- I love the machine- I have never tried to sex a juvenile PTS with it, but use it to detect pregnancy in adults. Ovaries are darn small until they get active and ovulate- and by the time a PTS is that old, I bet one could make a good guess on sex by the other methods. BUT now I am curious. Perhaps I will take a look inside my juveniles.
cheers, Jess b

Here's a link to the Gila article I mentioned. If you decide to try it I'd love to hear about your results.

http://www.arav.org/Journals/JA013201.htm

-Z

I tried half-heartedly to ultrasound the hemipenal area on one of my PTS last year with no success- I just couldn't get the fine detail to see much- working a such a shallow depth is hard to see anything that makes sense. We don't have the ultrasound head that I think would work best (shallow depth with fine detail like for horse tendons)- but now I am motivated, so I will try with the higher Hertz head. The lower Hertz head does better getting through belly scales, but you lose alot of fine detail.
Road trip for Chip and the 3 juveniles tomorrow!
Jess B

I asked the same thing when Brian first started posting a few months ago as I hadn't heard of his group. You can seach the forum for those posts- and can see the group goals ect, but as of then there was no web site with pictures, gathered data or PTS care info.
cheers, Jess b

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location LEE/1

JeanP.: Thanks for your support. I am honored.

KiwiSue: Thanks again, for your words of wisdom.

Lizardmisfits: Thank you for reminding me the need to help
others outweights are other factors.

Lindsey: Thank you for your kind words.

JessB: Thank you for testing the C/A Biometric method
with your PTS and posting the results.

Chris: I agree with JeanP, Good Corucia sex test with
the shed skin. Nice thinking!

Edward: Yes, I am the lesser man! I didn't live up to my
words and can back. (I had to consider the needs
of others instead of mere words).
I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Thanks again for those who contacted me and mentioned me. Again, I'm honored by your interest..

Sincerely,
Brian
SFCRC

>>Edward: Yes, I am the lesser man! I didn't live up to my
>> words and can back. (I had to consider the needs
>> of others instead of mere words).
>> I'm sorry to disappoint you.
>>
>>Thanks again for those who contacted me and mentioned me. Again, I'm honored by your interest..
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Brian
>>SFCRC
-----
Edward
Carpe diem

n/p

it's easy on a young skink before they build to much body fat....Chris

Young? How young is young?
The skink I'm considering is ~1 year old.
Have you been able to pop them at this age readily?

-Z