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Does anyone know if the axanthics that result from breeding normals het for axanthic (such as the double hets sold by Profesional Breeders) end up looking as nice as axanthics from axanthic to axanthic breedings?

In other words are the nicer axanthics usually selectivly breed for the high white/blue color? Or can first generation end up looking just as nice as adults? Thanks

The axanthics you are reffering to are allelic. In other words the genes are related except for rthe BHB axanthic which I call an anerythristic florida king.

The look of the axanthics depends on the line it came from. If you have nice phenotype parents than you will get nice axanthics.

NE = very light adults with almost no distint pattern
Lemke and outcrossed lines= very dark with heavy pattern adults

The neonates of the NE are not very good looking when compared to the Lemke line. The Lemke line usually produces nice "blue" babies. The NE does not. But when they grow up there is a huge difference with the outcrossed Lemke lines retaining a pattern and the NE line becoming increasingly speckled.

I have sold pure New England line axanthics for many years and all the babys turned out very speckled with a disperesed patern. I have never hasd a dud turn out from the NE line that was kept pure. I did some experimantation a few years back and wanted to see if the Lemke and NE lines were allelic. The Lemke line seems darker because the pattern is more distinct, causing a darker appearance. One time I did cross the Lemke line with the NE line and they turned out more like the darker Lemke line. They werre okay but nothing close to the pure NE's. There are people out there selling NE's that have been crossed out with the Lemke line and are marketing them as pure NE's even though they came from me.

Also there are a lot of outcrossed Lemke axanthics out in the market. Most have been out cossed to different lines and what I have seen are sub par axanthics. Most are priced accordingly. I see axanthics going for $25. on breeders tables at the Daytona Expo every year. I have seen than as low as $20. the l;ast 2 expos. But those are a far cry from what attracted people to axanthic SOUTH FLORIDA "brooksi" in the first place. These usaully come from Florida breeders who have outcrossed them to what they found in their backyards. These are florida kings and not the south florida brooksi that these lines originated from.
It seems natural evolution that Florida will do this. They have been doing backcrossing with the albino calif king to florida kings for many years. Bottom line is what you get are not very nice looking axanthics and definetly not a line from the original nice s. florida phenotypes that these resulted from. Then you will also see unscupulous breeders selling New Englands line brooksi that are not NE's at all. Delving further discussion with them usually reveals they don't know what they are talking about and end up saying they bought the babies as a group ( from another broker or unkown breeder) as NE's. Ha! Any breeder that has pure NE's would not be selling them to a brooker.

....I'm not sure just which part of your post I'm supposed to be insulted by
Certainly FL is not the only state with unscrupulous breeders, right? haha I hear GA has some as well....
I think that some breeders/sellers really have no idea what lines they may have and with all the criss-cross breeding I have to admit it can be difficulty to really track down after the fact. Easier to go with people who know a lot about their animals but you can find some great deals when you shop around
As for an answer to his question, I have had first generation from hets and double hets come out looking very nice. With NE ones being best I think. (some actuallty prefer the Llemke look)Like you said, the lines of the parents are critical obviously.
I should have kept back some of mine from '05. It's one morph that grows on you.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Mark,

I am not saying that all breeders in Florida are doing this OR that they are unscupulous. But there are many florida kings found in Floridas back yards. It makes sence that thats where most of the watered down ugly axanthics come from. Georgia is a fairly dead state when it come to breeding. There are only a handful of breeders here compared to Florida which herpetoculture is bery popular. I go to shows all over the country and it the Tamp and daytona show that i see the most cheap axanthics. The others I have seen in other states originated from Florida breeders. Nothing against you or others. There is nothing really "unscrupulous" about breeding a nice s. f Florida brooksi to say a dark florida king anyway. Its just how they are represented. I think it was pertinent to readers here so that they are aware of what axanthic is what. Is it very common to see ugly axanthics in you neck of the woods, no?

sorry about the typos but I have to type fast because my computer has a virus AND the locale connections in my area are up and down. I basically have a few nminutes to post. I originally posted a long reply regardinbg the axanthics and it was lost due to a failed connection. ANd as people know the second time writing a post it never comes out as well as the first time.

Sorry if I offended any Florida breeders. That was not my intent.

I was goofin' on ya dude. (see smiley emoticon in first post)
No offense taken.
I don't see any kings around my neck of the woods anymore...
Pinellas are high on my "to photo" list but haven't found one yet this year.
Get that comp. to a doctor! and don't emaile me!
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Mark, I'm down for a 1.1 if you go this year! Show me the parents!!!
Todd Hughes

This is a male I produced in '97....nearly 10 years ago. I don't a dark animal here. He's still one screamer of an axanthic and was produced from a Lemke to Lemke breeding.

Brandon Osborne

Brandon,

You should be embarassed and ashamed to post that ugly thing. You should put it out of its misery. No wait, I am sure you are attached to that black looking thing. Send it to me and I will do the deed.

...he could send it to me...Heck, I'll even pay the shipping!
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Rainer,
Which one is this?

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www.reptilianobsession.com/index.htm

Sorry hit the wrong pics. Try this one.

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www.reptilianobsession.com/index.htm

sorry but I cannot tell from that pic.

It is a neoante and the NE neonates are not as pretty blue as babies as the Lemke line. Difference is the Lemkes turn out darker with more pattern and the NE's blosson into light speckled beasts.