Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've noticed that recently the ambient temperature in my 50/50's enclosure has been changing very drastically - the new light puts it at 100 during the daytime and 65 at night. Is this an acceptable range? If not, what should I do about it short of buying a new light/turning the A/C off at night?
thanks

WOW 100
Thats not good
My personal feeling about this is.

Dont get a snake unless you have the provisions to supply the reptile with the right hunsbandry needs.

Dont just make do

Make sure the enclosure temps are correct before the reptile is introduced.

High temps will kill a reptile quickly.

Sorry to sound blunt.
Get yourself a good thermostat and heatpad, correct temperatures in the enclosure are the most important alongside food supply.

No exceptions.

Ok now iv had my rant, at least get the next bulb size down and install a seperate low watt bulb for night use.
have them switched independently.

wattage depends on the type of enclosure you have ie glass wood plastic and also the size.

100 in itslef sounds bad, but if the snake has a cooler retreat, say in the low to mid 70's as well, you would actually be giving your Cal King a great thermal gradient. I've seen snakes, when given the choice, spend time in 100 degrees or more soon after eating. This speads up digestion, as well as gives their metabolism and immune system a boost. Years ago people would have jumped out of their skins if you told them that a monitior needed a 130 degree basking spot, but now we know that that is pretty common knowledge. Snake in the wild would definitely have access to 100 degree basking spots. They may not always be use them, but if given the choice, I bet they do, if the need arises. I will say that it does sound like you need to get a better control on your temps. What kind of thermometer are you useing? Personally, I think that nothing beats an infared thermometer. They are very reasonably priced, Pro-Exotics has them on Kingsnake classifieds for as little as $25. They give you a very accurate surface temp, unlike pet store thermometers that give an approximate ambient air temp, or worse the container or cage surface temp. If your night time low temp is for the high end of you snake's enclosure, it sounds like you live in an icebox. 65 is a little low. I hope this helps.
Take care,
-Phil

Yup, lose the light and get an under the tank heating pad contolled by a dimmer switch. You can get a cheap lamp dimmer cord at Home Depot for about 10 bucks. The heating pad should go under only one side of the tank (mine covers only about 1/4 the area of the tank). The substrate (not air) temperature should not exceed the upper 80's. The other side of the enclosure should have no supplemental heat at all. This gives your snake a range of temps to choose from (low 70's to upper 80's is about the max range you want). I have a hide on the cool side and a hide on the warm side. They prefer the warm hide during digestion, and the cold hide the rest of the time. Keep your water on the cool side of the tank. Snakes live on/in the substrate, so substrate temp is much more important than air temps. My air temps fluctuate with the room temperature, providing a natural daytime heating, nighttime cooling cycle. Your snake doesnt need artificial light at all. Kingsnakes are largely nocturnal and don't need the UV light pet stores want to sell you.

Can you post a picture of your enclosure? Can you tell us how you are measuring your temperatures? Can you tell us where you are measuring your temperatures? Can you tell us what kind of substrate you use and how much is in the cage?

I'm a little surprised that you can see this range. If you have little or no substrate and are keeping your house very cold, then maybe your cage can lose that much heat overnight. However, if you're giving your kingsnake a good base of substrate in which to burrow, then I would think that the substrate should hold temperature overnight. I'd like to see what you are doing before believing that you are really seeing this range.

In any case, I agree with the previous posts about getting a thermostat. For the first few months that I had my kingsnake, his cage temperatures and humidity regulated very easily. Highs in one or two spots hit 92 occasionally but usually stayed around 90. Lows were in the high 60's to low 70's. I was happy, and I think he was happy. Unforuntately, things started to fluctuate eventually. I don't know exactly what happened, but I came home occasionally to find the warm end of the cage in the high 90's. He could still go to the cool end of the cage to escape, but I didn't feel good. Eventually, I bought a thermostat, and temperature control is much easier. Having that control makes the whole experience much less stressful for me because I know that it's much better for my snake.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

pictures:

and of course

he's still a li'l guy in a big terrarium
The thermometer is near the top of the side. It has a glass lid, so that can help explain it being very hot, but not the cold - shouldn't the glass help insulate? I have it open a half inch to keep the humidity down, which has been working. I've got different levels of reptibark all along the terrarium, with places I've made for the snake to hide. Usually he's under his rock water dish (which is opposite of the light). Even with the lower wattage bulb I used before, he always was under the dish during the day. Also there is a small corner in the back which used to house aquarium tubes and such. He sometimes goes in there. Also I have a platform directly under and to the side of the light - he sometimes lays there, with his top pressed between the warm glass and the platform. As far as measuring temperatures, you can see I've got a basic thermometer and humidity gauge made for terrariums.

SO: I should ditch the light, get a heatpad with a dimmer instead, put an infrared thermo close to the substrate... correct?
thanks for the help

First, I think your setup is pretty. The blue background looks nice, and snakes supposedly don't like having open glass all around them. The blue background helps him there. I'm not all that experienced, but from what others have told me, he'd probably like a little more hiding places and deeper substrate in which to burrow. However, your setup is nice as it is.

Secondly, you need more thermometers and need them in different places. The one you have isn't telling you the temperature where your snake lives. I suspect that the high temperature that you see there comes from your lamp heating your themometer and/or heat radiating from the glass just above the thermometer. Your snake lives maybe a foot below this level, and temperatures are different where he is.

Another member suggested getting a temperature gun from Pro-Exotics. I have one of these, and I love mine. If you can afford one, they're great to have. Regardless of whether you get the temperature gun, you can get digital thermometers with probes for about 7 or 8 dollars each at various herp places around the web. You can also get some at about the same price from Wal-Mart, but I like the looks of the ones for reptiles better. Placing these probes at ground level in your tank would tell you much more about the real temperatures where your snake is living. I'd recommend putting one by his water dish and another on the ground immediately under the light. You can also get the little $1 suction cup thermometers from Wal-Mart that will work in a pinch.

Once you start measuring your temperatures where your snake lives, you may find that your setup isn't doing badly. Your temperatures may be okay already. I still like undertank heaters and thermostats, and I'd still recommend the thermostat at least. However, better data will be a better starting point for understanding whether you're providing the right heat.

Thirdly, one nice thing about adding substrate is that substrate is a good heat sink. The substrate will gain or release heat much more slowly than the air will. Once the substrate reaches good temperatures, the fluctuations will be less. I added substrate to my tank mostly because others on here recommended it, but I had already recognized its value in smoothing out temperature fluctuations. I just hadn't added enough to do much good.

Bill

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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Ah, that makes me feel a lot better. It's just strange to me that it has been going as low as 65 at the top, where the glass SHOULD be holding in the heat at night. However, that might not be an issue if the bark is holding in enough heat. I'll get a probe and proper thermometers next for my little snake.
Your snake looks so nice, how old is it?

It's possible that when you measure the temperature at your snake's level, you'll still find that there is a problem. The important thing is getting the right data from which to evaluate your situation.

I agree that it's strange that a glass top wouldn't be holding a layer of warm air up there. On the other hand, the opening might allow enough convection that the heat easily escapes. If your room is cool enough, the top may not be doing much.

I always measure the temperature at least two inches from my aquarium wall except for a few spots where I use extra thermometers that only fit against the glass. I've often found that the temperature near the edge is a few degrees cooler than the temperature just an inch or two away from the glass. The fact that your thermometers are against that angled piece should put them far enough from the glass, but maybe something else is happening. As you said, it's strange.

I've only had my guy since October, and I don't know how old he is. The store where I got him said that he came from a guy who lives in the next parish, but the details of his previous life aren't clear. I think he's about two or three years old. He's around 43 or 44 inches long, so he's likely a young adult. Thanks for the compliment on him. He's a great little guy.

Bill

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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.