Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm really just asking for an opinion on this matter.

I have a male caramel albino that is a little over 500 grams and two huge females that are over 2000 grams.

The two girls are flipped over on their backs asking for bon bons and pickles and ice cream...both have just shed and I'm hoping for eggs soon *crosses fingers*

So what's the question? Last year our caramel was not interested in the girls at all, so we put our BIG old normal male with these two girls and he did lock up with them quite a few times...though we never got eggs from any female he bred last year. Not even a hint of gravidness.

This year the only male that was introduced to these two girls was the caramel..he was showing interest though I never witnessed them locked up. He was in with them for approx. 4 months before being put back in his own cage.

Do you think these girls retained sperm from last year from the normal male? Or do you think the caramel was shy and waited til we were asleep to do the deed?

I think it is likely that the caramel male would be the daddy, but you can not be sure. Sperm retention has been well documented. Again, I would feel pretty good about my chances of getting a bunch of het offspring, but if you are going to sell some I would very carefully explain the situation to prospective buyers so they can make their own descision.

I wouldn't rule out either of them - might be a mixed batch.

Seems odd (to me anyway) that in 4 months you haven't witnessed a single copulation. But I guess if you aren't don't check on them often like we do then it might be easy to miss. My smallest male that I bred this season started out only breeding for a few hours at a time then hooking back up again after a couple hour breather. Even with his schedule I was able to see him hook up several times (eventually he started breeding for 24-36 hours like the rest). Thats not to say yours didn't have a "nightime only" schedule but just seems odd to me (I am sure there are others that have probably had secretive breeders).

But then again both of them retaining sperm for a whole year is a bit odd too. LOL

Best of luck with them - whatever they turn out to be!
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

I don't check on them often, they get checked on daily for fresh water and any dirty spots that need cleaning and for food when it's feeding day. When I introduced him to the girls I noticed that he was "interested" in them. Last year all he did was explore the cage(try to find a way out) and this year first thing he did was head straight for the girls. He was displaying typical courting behavior - rapid flicking of his tongue, and rubbing his chin all over their backs.

I'm not ruling out anything at this point..hehe! IF we do end up selling what hatches out of these eggs then I will of course explain the situation and offer some sort of buy back if they turn out to be normal. Though odds are we'll end up keeping the babies.

Thanks for the input!

>>I wouldn't rule out either of them - might be a mixed batch.
>>
>>Seems odd (to me anyway) that in 4 months you haven't witnessed a single copulation. But I guess if you aren't don't check on them often like we do then it might be easy to miss. My smallest male that I bred this season started out only breeding for a few hours at a time then hooking back up again after a couple hour breather. Even with his schedule I was able to see him hook up several times (eventually he started breeding for 24-36 hours like the rest). Thats not to say yours didn't have a "nightime only" schedule but just seems odd to me (I am sure there are others that have probably had secretive breeders).
>>
>>But then again both of them retaining sperm for a whole year is a bit odd too. LOL
>>
>>Best of luck with them - whatever they turn out to be!
>>-----
>>Tosha
>>
>>"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"
>>
>>
>>
>>6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
>>1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
>>0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
>>0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
>>0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
>>0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
>>2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
>>0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
>>0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

I would keep all of the female offspring and sell the males as normals. Yea they are most likely from the carmel but you don't know for sure and I wouldn't offer a buy back, and here is why. What would the buy back price be? If I raised a baby up for 2-3 years and it didn't prove out I would want at least 2 times what I paid for it. Just think of the time that was waisted not to say food items all to get nothing but my money back, That is just not worth it to me. I would sell them as normals the Could be the offsprings of the carmel. If you do that then you won't get messed up later because you sold NORMALS and if someone decides to work with the possibility of it being a Het then it would be on them and not you. I guess that is why I like co-doms so much, It either IS or Is NOT. However I did kinda do the same thing with a 100% het Pied female, I bred her to my 100% het male a few times and she got the follicles bit I was not sure she was gonna do the rest so I threw my Cinnamon male in with her and he also locked up with her. But I plan on keeping all of the babies anyway. That is just my Opinion. Thanks David

Yeah but I didn't put any other males in with those girls this breeding season..just the caramel.

There's a 99.9% chance that we're going to end up keeping all the kids and like I said IF we decide to sell them...then we'll cross that creek when we get to it. Regardless..because I'm not 100% sure that the caramel is the father(damn those recessive genes!!), there's no way I would to sell them as hets. I thought about what I had posted earlier(concerning the "buyback guarantee" RIGHT after I hit "post" and thought...well gee that sounded dumb. I agree with you on that!

Time will tell! First the females have to give them up...then they have to hatch! Who knows they could lay slugs and I won't have a problem at all! I hope not though...

>>However I did kinda do the same thing with a 100% het Pied female, I bred her to my 100% het male a few times and she got the follicles bit I was not sure she was gonna do the rest so I threw my Cinnamon male in with her and he also locked up with her. But I plan on keeping all of the babies anyway. That is just my Opinion. Thanks David

The buy back thing is not dumb, Several of the breeders offer buy backs if the animals don't prove out. I just don't agree with it, for some people the buy back might be ok with them but for me it isn't. But anyway I just wanted to tell you that it isn't dumb for you to think about the buy back because some people might be ok with that. Good luck with your females. Thanks David