Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that people who have lots of snakes have to use racks for the space situation, but I was wondering which you feel is the optimum choice for the snakes to be in:

1. a rack system with heat tape along the back , and bedding and a waterbowl ( do you put hides in here as well or just use the substrate?)

OR
2. an aquarium with multiple hides and a UTH and aspen to burrow in.

I have quite a bit of rack system space left that I could put some of the aquariumed snakes into if it is a healthier, or better enviroment for them, but I just wasnt sure what ultimately is better for the. OR is it just conditional of the snakes personality?

In my house, I feel those in the rack system just dont move around and exercise near as much as those in the aquariums so I have not utilized my full rack space because I want the snakes to be as happy as possible with thier surroundings.

I would like to hear others thoughts and knowledge on this.

thanks

Rack systems with bins are FAR easier to clean, therefore is probably better for the snake in the long run. I have several snakes in Aquariums just to display them, why have nice snakes if you cant see them? I personally dont use a hide box in rack bins, just Aspen bedding for them to tunnel in. My little Scarlet Kings do better in Bins, since they are a bit more secretive. But my Larger Kings seem to like cruising around in the open aquarium and looking outside.

Scott

To me this is a easy one. A large aquarium with a heat light and a climbing surface underneath it so the snake can move up and down the heat column and also to the opposite end is the best choice. I am not a big fan of the UTH heaters because I feel a bulb will offer more range. In a large collection using racks I can definitely see their benefit but for a aquarium I feel the heat bulbs are a better choice.

Also you can offer more vertical surfaces, or actually more to the point, more horizontal surfaces at different levels. Large mounted branches or a shelf system. Effectively adding more "space" for exercise. So I would say by far a aquarium. Better yet a custom made cage with more shelves and hides added in with the thought of snake in mind while you build it. After all the design of a aquarium is for fish and a plastic box is for storage. That is basically what we do with racks. Store the snakes until we feed, clean, or the eggs are ready to be pulled.

later Jason

Here is my guess:

The best you could do would be to provide a roomy enclosure with proper humidity levels for the species and a temperature range that allows the snakes to stay cooler if they want or warmer if they want.

If you can do this in a rack then great. One just doesn't see many racks offering such temperature choices. You are seeing more racks using the larger CB-70 boxes now. I think that is a good thing for large adult kingsnakes/milksnakes and for temperature gradients.

Please take no offense. But temp choices is only one aspect of the needs of snakes. There are far more. To base your thoughts on one aspect of many is, is, is, is being very narrow in your understanding. Cheers

None taken.

The best setup I had IMO is when I kept a pair of Cal kings each in 4ft cages with a temperature drop at night. Even during the day most of the cage was at room temp. The female produced nice large eggs and she looked great afterwards.

Years later I tried the rack systems becoming popular - 28qt sweaterboxes. The same female still produced but looked very thin after laying.

Same female went back into the large cage setup, and she looked great again after laying, not all worn out.

In the larger cage, the male ate less but kept the same overall look to him.

I don't own any racks for adult snakes anymore simply based on the above experience.

Rack systems are not about whats good for the snakes, its all about convienence for the keeper. You can put more animals in a smaller place. And of course, in an easier to clean and maintain a bare plastic box.

It does this by offering only the bare minimum to the kept. Not to be confused with "better" or "ideal" and of course not to be confused with maximum.

Also consider, an aware experienced keeper can offer more choices in a rack system, then a novice can in a large tank. Just something to think about.

A glass tank(or any cage) does not have to be better either. Any cage can be set up to "not" offer what the animal needs. Space does mean, you can offer more. Plain and simple. You just have to understand what more is. Cheers

FR I get what your saying, but i desire more detail from you as the others have given. I agree about racks being for the keeper and not the snake thus I am hesitant to use them if I dont absolutely have to. I would really like to provide the BEST enviroment possible for my animals and if that means I have to change to make more space then so be it. I am not into my own convienience here, just the best husbandry for the animals.

I currently have about ten in aquariums and 5 in a rack. I know many of you house many snakes from reading the forum note. So Frank please tell me what is YOUR best set up for California Kings , and Honduran milksnakes and rat snakes. These are what I keep mostly. I like details, can you offer some?

Currently, My aquariums offer a gradient of 75 to 85 degrees with a nightdrop of sometimes 72 on the cooler side. There are two hides in each cage, one on each temp side and other things that they can climb over or get behind as well. In my Rack The temp gradient stays about the same but its harder to get the cooler spots based on racks holding heat and I provide deep substrate and a water bowl and some of the snakes have a hide in there that they particular have shown they find comfort in. My quarentine system is to put the snakes in other room in basic aquarium set up with White paper towels on the bottom.The humidity in the snake room stays around 30% and misting is done regularly for preshed snakes.

Ventilation is an important issue. I know there's the general belief that poking a few holes in the tub is plenty enough to keep your herps alive. But is it optimal? Reduced oxygen has been shown to limit size growth in certain animals.

To me, all the other aspects like temperature range, humidity and substrate are subjective to the person designing the set-up. With clever planning those things can be accounted for in either racks or aquaria. I've seen some rack tubs more dressed up than aquarium cages. So I think the cage that allows for the most air exchange would ultimately be the superior one.
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chickabowwow

So to say what "is" best is simply not going to happen.

What is best is about you the keeper. Rack systems are handy for keeping snakes alive and breeding them. Its handy for people who do not care to learn from their captives. As they are not allowed to do anything but the bare minimum. In many cases, you cannot see them anyway. Opaque plastic, etc.

If you want to enjoy the captives, then a cage that allows you to see them is nice. If you want to learn about the animals, then a cage that allows the animal to do things, climb, burrow, swim, make temp and humidity choices, etc. If you have a captive that is particularly adapted to something, like vinesnakes(have them) or greenrats(have them) or hognose(have them) or kingsnakes(fairly generalized burrower, but do climb too) Then display them in a way that allows them to do what they are designed to do.

IF your joy mainly in the owning or pocessing of a snake, then rack systems can be for you. Or if your a commerial breeder, then rack systems are for you. Theres nothing wrong with commerial breeders housing their stock in a commerial way. But consider, why would a non-commerial keeper want to do that???????

You see, the choices are out there, you can pick whats good for you. I personally scratch my head over all these beautiful kingsnakes being kept in a method they offer no beauty. Odd, don't you think?

More examples, Some people, Kerby comes to mind, are more about what comes out of the eggs. That is, if you breed this one with that one, what will result. That is something that has always driven me. Or someone like JETZEN appears to be. He may keep them in racks(I really don't know) but he hand feeds them(or at least that he what appears to do. His hand feeding is a good way to enjoy the snake and SEE it. As well as giving something for the snake to do different. You know, get out of the box every once in a while.

There is only one REAL limitation, and that is your imagination. The reason I hate caresheets is, there are only a place to start, not a place to finish. I guess I would rather hate caresheets, then hate the people who have no imagination. Cheers

(Not being a wise guy) "proccessing" or 'possessing"? Thanks, A pretty mature unjudgemental way of looking at it. A lot to think on. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts/experience on it. I think sometimes we talk past ourselves when all we want is to take good care of our herps.

I know personaly I struggle with having kept animals in very large enclosures only to hardly ever see them and when I did it was very stressful for the animal to even be interacted with for basic health observation and cleaning.

I've kept large Ratsnakes in large cages for years that displayed well all of the time. Out in the open draped on branches and very aware and seemingly enjoying the interaction and goings on around them.

I have also enjoyed keeping animals like kings/Milks in racks and having mellow, compliant captives ala Jetzen that were easy to keep clean and frequently interacted with.

It's when I sometimes run into the " Natural caging is THE ONLY WAY to keep herps if you REALLY care about them" crowd, that things feel ugly sometimes (I like natural caging by the way)

Thanks for some fresh air common sense comments
Bob

Hi Bob, Its kinda about learning to play the game. This naturalistic stuff.

You said, ratsnakes climbed and appeared to enjoy large cages. Then you mentioned kingsnakes did not, and may perfer smaller(rack systems)

The point is, I kept kingsnakes and became mister kingsnake man(years ago) because I loved that kingsnakes were personable and climbed and used all of the cages. On the other hand, milksnakes sucked(at the time) because in my experience, all they did was hide and then crap on you.

Now you see my limitations, I did not understand or offer milksnakes, conditions to make them suitable. OR it may have been more about, most milksnakes were wildcaught(at the time).

The fun of keeping nice cages is to investigate and move and change things to see what something does. For instance last year, someone found a copperhead in west texas, they found it in the field. The copperhead was buried in the leaves, with only its head sticking out. Well, I have been messing with vinesnakes, of course they hang out in branches, and even go in hollows in limbs. But what amazed me was, they also buried themselves in the leafs and would have their head sticking up. At times, their head would be a foot off the ground. Their neck would lead strait down into the leaf litter. Like some kind of funny plant. Cheers

The tidbits that Frank does let out are very interesting observations of both field and captive situations. Thanks, F.R.!
Todd Hughes