Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Down the road a ways, I plan to start breeding rats and possibly mice on a small scale to feed my collection with any excess going to the refuge where I volunteer for thier snakes. Given the high rates of tumors and such I've seen commercially availible rodents, and that some snakes seem to prefer dark colored rodents, I'm considering trapping some wild rodents to start the colonies. This would mean at least treating them for parasites and quarentining each animal before adding to the breeding population.

My question is are there any issues I'm not thinking about here? Will they breed well in captivity? Smell worse? Eat more? Legal issues with taking them from the wild (I live in Florida, and these are probably not native anyway...Norway rats probably, but I'm not sure about the mice)?

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Larry D. Fishel
Side effects may include paralysis
and death but are generally mild.

Larry,

I haven't seen any tumors in my colony. Any animal that grows as fast as rodents do might be prone to tumors, espcially since their life expectancy in the wild is not very high. Perhaps the tumors you are seeing or hearing about are a result of living past their expected life span.

Other draw backs might include Hanta Virus, Plague (Black and others), low productivity, biting, trouble adapting to cage life....

There are lots of colored rats and mice out there. They are prolific, reliable, tame, and safe. They have been selectively bred. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. There is deffinately no need to expose yourself or your family to Hanta or Plague.

DeMak

Without even considering the disease risk, wild rodents tend to be flighty and aggressive. I don't know how many generations it would take to breed that out. Domesticated rats are such a blessing!! LOL!

A couple years ago, I was given a litter of 6 wild rat pups and I gave them to one of my mommas. She did great with them. 5 survived and until they got to be about 3-4 weeks old, they acted just like the rest of the babies. Then all of a sudden, it was like the devil possessed them! They'd dart out of your hands, bite the you-know-what out of your fingers, and more. I got fed up with trying to keep them contained while I cleaned the cage every other day and decided to feed them to my retic and be done with it.

I dropped 2 in his cage, leaving 3 in the critter keeper. Once he was done, I went to give him the others. I openned the box, one shot up and when I went to grab it, the lid flipped out of my hand, knocking the rat in one direction while the other two took advantage of the situation and sprung out too. Those three rats went flying in all different directions!! I stood there for a second dazed that all 3 rats and the critter keeper were sitting on the floor while I had empty hands! LOL!

I grabbed one rat on the floor, and in the process, lost sight of the other two. Once I had a hold of that rat, it bit me hard. For about a week after, I keep seeing little rat faces peeking at me from behind things in that room. I never could catch those two and then just didn't see them anymore.

The interesting part was that they looked different. They had larger ears and eyes, and their faces were longer than those of domesticated rats.

I had some my son found when he cleaned out a cabin. They would shoot straight up like loaded springs when I tried to clean the cage. I swear they were like something out of a cartoon. I gave them back and he let them loose out in the country.

There are actually many different kinds of rats. Wood, rice, marsh, and kangaroo come to mind.

DeMak

That reminds me of when I was a kid. Every summer I would go to my grandparents farm for a couple weeks. There were all these old barn cats out there, and in the summer there were the cutest little kittens all over that barn! I must have been all of 7 at the time, and I was absolutely convinced if I could just catch one of them cute kittens it would love me as much as I wanted to love it! (I know, I know NOW)

So.......after several days of patient stalking, finally, I grabbed one of those kittens....................

And wished I could put the bloody evil thing down! My word but that cat had some claws and teeth. I swear it was like grabbing the tazmanian devil in one of those old bugs bunny cartoons!!! And the more I hollered and tried to brush it off of me, the more it hollered and clawed and bit!!!!!!!!!!

Leave wild things where you found them.........I don't care what sappy old movie you watched...........it doesn't want to be your friend!

I was visiting a friend and as I got in the car to leave, I noticed a row of four cats, following something. It was just getting dark and I couldn't see what they were after but seeing 4 cats all in a row like an elephant chain, made me laugh. I looked closer and saw that they were trying to catch a gopher.

I drove ahead, parked, hopped out of the car and cornered that little gopher in front of a garage door. When the cats decided that I could have it if I wanted it, I should have taken that as a clue but no...I looked at it and thought, "After a week of quarantine, that's free snake food." I lunged and grabbed it just behind the head...(little did I know that gophers had inspector gadget necks). It turned and bit me so hard right in my palm.

So, there I was squated down in some stranger's driveway with a darn gopher stuck to my hand. I swung my hand up and down a few times trying to shake it off and it would not let go. I swung my hand harder...still stuck. By this point, I'm practically yelling at the thing, "LET GO OF MY HAND!!!" It finally did let go, after about a dozen swings. The wicked thing flew over my head, landed on the grass and ran for dear life. At this point, I was envisioning the people that owned the house coming out to ask, "Uh...what are you doing...?" after seeing me in an awkward position in their driveway. Thankfully, I was spared of that embarrassment. LOL!

I helped a friend move a piano once (yes, only once). Underneath we found a lizard that was dehydrated and almost dead. I put it in an old aquarium and nursed it back to health. One day, I went to pick it up and it latched onto my fingertip. I had to smack it's head against the glass to get it to let go. Aftre that I decided it was well enough to go back to the wild.....

DeMak

>>A couple years ago, I was given a litter of 6 wild rat pups and I gave them to one of my mommas. She did great with them. 5 survived and until they got to be about 3-4 weeks old, they acted just like the rest of the babies. Then all of a sudden, it was like the devil possessed them! They'd dart out of your hands, bite the you-know-what out of your fingers, and more. I got fed up with trying to keep them contained while I cleaned the cage every other day and decided to feed them to my retic and be done with it.
>>
>>The interesting part was that they looked different. They had larger ears and eyes, and their faces were longer than those of domesticated rats.

The behaviour (& appearance) you describe is classic for the wild rat known as the notorious Ship Rat/Roof Rat/Plague Rat/Black Rat (Rattus rattus). These rats were the ones people originally attempted to 'domesticate' as pets back before the World War, but failed due to the nature of their behavior/thought patterns. Eventually the Sewer Rat/Brown Rat (R. norvegicus) was domesticated and became what people now commonly as pet/feeder rats or 'Fancy Rats'. The natural instincts of the brown rat was more suitable for 'pet material' than that of the ship rat. Ship rats.. they...it's like combining a cat, ferret, and parrot into one small body -- very agile, quick as lightning, and trouble/michief maker that can be your best friend one day and could literally tear you up a week later as if you were its worst enemy. A ship rat that is raised by a breeder may be quite friendly to that person (or not), but to another person could be a rat from hell (or all lovey dovey). They are "I like this person, but I don't like that person". "I like this dog, but I don't like that dog" It's this recognition pattern that makes it difficult to pursue them successfully in the pet trade...there is no guarantee of 'tameness' even if you hand raise them. Brown rats being more easy going and recognizing humans as one group more so than as individuals do much better at adapting to new owners.

I have a quartet of wild ship rats that were brought to me when still pinkies (cat apparently raided a nest and the lady thought they were baby mice). I hand raised them having no foster rat moms to give them to. Up until the time that maturity started setting in, they were basically just the same as domestic rat pups. After the hormones kicked in the widely varying behaviour patterns of the ship rat became very apparent. I have one (Templeton) that is a total sweetheart, full of mischief, loves to play. I have one (Splinter) that is a total demon that would put someone in the ER if given the split second opportunity (which she did once) and it's very obvious she loves to stare at you and daydream about tearing your throat out. I have one (Pitbull) that is a combination of the other two depending on her mood or hormone levels (though never did she get as nasty as Splinter). Pit recently passed away from congenital/congestive heart failure. Then there is the only male in that litter...Baracuda. Not friendly but not agressive either...more aloof and standoffish. Basically would rather keep to himself rather than be bothered by me (unless I am handing out treats then it's snatch and grab)...has never tried to bite though. None of the rats can be handled as adults. Even Templeton being the sweetest one would not tolerate being handled. At best I can put my hand in the cage (when splinter is safely sleeping on an upper level) and she would jump on and off my arm but will not come out of the cage without freaking totally.
I also have 3 babies from one of Splinter's litters...2 females and a male. The male (Junior) is like his dad though a bit more skittish. The females, one (Peekaboo) will peek out into the open area of the cage when I am around, but quickly runs away if she sees any movement. The other (Ghost), I rarely get to see her...always hiding.

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PHWyvern

Ship rats.. they...it's like combining a cat, ferret, and parrot into one small body -- very agile, quick as lightning,

LOL! Yes!!! That describes them precisely!!

These were found by a friend of mine. They were rebuilding their deck and discovered the litter. The mom ran off, leaving the 5 pups. If I had to do it all over again, I would have fed them off as pinkies! LOL! Rotten things!