Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Which would you say is the largest on average? I have been asking and searching around, but I have yet to get a difinitive answer. So far I believe it is P.c.catenifer, but I am not certain. Anybody have any other ideas?

I'd say bullsnakes for the most part, followed by pine snakes. I think if you were to find the greatest reports of which snakes are over 7', it'd be bulls....I don't know which locality bulls are the largest, in the wild it tends to be those from warmer climates due to more growing season, but in captivity I bet it could be different...

-----
Matt from Minnesota

Yeah- I'd say bull or northern pine...

I've seen some HUGE northerns on KS here- easily over 6', and nice girth, too...

//Todd

some of the bulls can get very large & in a hurry too! here's a 2.5 year old crumbly red bull whose putting on some good size. the flash kinda 'blanched' him out, he's actually much redder in person.......

It is interesting when this question comes up ( which it does every 6 months or so here on the forum) there is always a debate on which is bigger etc. I can only relate what our experience has been over the years. Who is the biggest really depends on how you gauge size. Is girth more important than length, are we talking about wild caught size or the super size of captive bred animals, is average length or girth the measure or an individual example within a species.

My response is as follows:

On a general average incorporating length and girth the bull snakes are generally the winner. With average texas animals being 6' - 8' monsters with very heavy bodies, then the northern pines being just a slight bit smaller on average and then the sonoran gopher coming in third by a little.

But the heaviest bodied pits we keep are Southern Pines by far.

Additionally I always tell folks a 6' heavy bodied pit is a huge snake that folks always think are larger merely because of the animals demeanor and body langauge if you understand what I am saying. I own an 18 year old corn that is over 5 1/2' and she is a huge corn, but is dwarfed by a 5' bull or northern for example.

My two cents anyway for what it worth. Let the debate begin LOL. One other thought is it amazes me how often I have heard of 8 - 10 foot pits that have shrunk when they are faced with a string down the back and that compared to a tape measure.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

Very interesting responses by all I appreciate all the input as well.
-----
Matt from Minnesota

you took the words right out of my mouth john. most of my bulls are basically longer in length but s. pines seem like beasts in comparison though actually somewhat shorter. this despite the fact they usually eat less often too! point in fact: here is southern man again [same pics] & these were taken some 5 days before he broke his 173 day fast. hard to believe he hadn't eaten since 9/27/05 but that was his last meal till just recently. he went straight into blue & now is getting even larger! :>/

Beautiful animal, Dan. Who produced it?

-----
Carl

i got him in a trade as a yearling 3 years ago carl but that guy had gotten him from someone else. the 2nd guy who had him couldn't get him to eat and just kept him down in a cool, dark basement. that turned out to be a stroke of luck & after awhile he came around for me. he'd rather starve though before accepting f/t. live [stunned] rats need only apply. if it doesn't move, either does he........ :>/

Hey John.........I thought you were going to enlighten these folks with tales of the 277 or south Texas bulls that attain tremendous lengths. I have personally seen two DOR's that were well over 7 feet while out there on grayband hunts. I find it interesting that your mugitus attain the greatest girth of all of the pits in your collection. The attached pic is of my supersized northern. He tapes out at 8' 4". He is peeking out of his 48" by 24" Boaphile cage. He weighs in at 10 lbs. and is a relatively trim dude. I caution pit keepers to not overfeed their adult males. They do better with less. Please excuse the mess in the cage below...........one of my male jani looks like he was having his way with his lady........gotta love springtime!

Steve,

You are right about the bulls from around 277 and also the South Texas animals on a regular basis they are collectted and are true 7' animals. The 277 animals seem to have a little less in girth than the south texas wild caughts but are still true big boys. LOL. A 7' bull in the wild that gets upset is a real monster that will get your attention. I took some folks from Virgina down to South Texas last year on a photo trip. During that trip we ran across the many checkered garters, glossy snakes, Long Nose, atrox up to about 5 1/2', one annulata and a 6 1/2' texas indigo. But what he is still talking about was a 7' male bull that we found on the road right at dusk that was not too happy with him trying to position it for photos. Cool animals and a real hand full.

John Cherry
Cherryville Frms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

John.........Folks that have only experienced captive bred pits really have no clue as to how impressive a large wild bull or pine is, when they let you know........in no uncertain terms...........that they don't appreciate your presence. That first hiss, as they draw back into defensive mode will stop anybody.....lmao!

By the way, do your southerns attain the girth of a Texas Indigo of the same size? I grew up in south Florida and have seen many large Indigos, but once couperi hit 6 and 1/2 feet, they really begin to put on girth. My big northern pine is nowhere near the girth of a 6 and 1/2 foot Indigo. As a Florida resident, I am allowed one "normal" mugitus. I'd love to have a nice patternless or leucistic that approached the girth of an Indigo of the same length. At what length do your southerns start to put on that girth. The biggest wild caught mugitus that I have personally seen was a male just over 6 feet, and that snake was slimmer than an Indigo of the same size..............Steve G.