Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please help a newbie!

Ok ok I know there are no stupid questions, but I feel dumb asking it, because I thought I had this figured out already.

Let me start out by saying I am used to corn snakes when it comes to sexing snakes. I pop and probe my babies to make doubly sure of what I have.

I have six female balls. The other day I got the Complete Ball Python book by Kevin McCurley. It says females probe 2-3 scales deep, and males probe 5 or more deep.

All six of my "females" probe about 5-6 scales, and I was told that yes, females could probe that deep. Five of them are little enough to pop, so I popped them, and I would say they all pop female. They were all CH guaranteed females.

My big female definately doesnt probe as deep as my male, and I cannot get any sperm plugs out of her, while I could get them out of my male. She weighs so much I cant get an accurate reading on my scale anymore. Her last weight was over 1900 grams.

So, do I have six males, or am I being silly? Please be nice, LOL

Thanks in advance,
Sarah

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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

I don't have an answer for you but I do have a WOW that is a cool eye shot love it
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1.2.0 ball python (aragorn, arwen,`eowyn)
1.0.0 100% het pied (frodo)
1.0.0 columbian boa (squiggles)
1.0.0 rat snake (alabastered)
0.1.0 corn snake (baby)
0.0.2 whites tree frog (trevor, kirmet)
0.0.5 pacific green tree frogs
3.2.0 cats (rockie, bs, brownie, lerrado, kole)
1.3.0 kids (dilyen, dakota, chyanne, sierra)
Brian n Chrissy
"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

Snakebytes

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g...

_____

That's the known male..lol
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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

I have females that probe 7 scales deep. Most are around 4 scales. I don't think I have any that are as shallow as 2. My males are 9 .

Hope that helps.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Most of my girls probe 4 or 5 scales, with some probing as deep as seven. Good Luck.

Will

9 and above. I guess it did not like the plus sign.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

The probe should be 1/4 the width of the snake's vent. Using anything smaller or bigger results in really really inaccurate results and the chance of damaging your snake. Also you shouldn't be using much force with the probe, just enough to move it until it stops, try KY liquid as a lubricant to make your snakes more comfortable and to make it easier to tell when the probe will stop naturally. Using the correct technique 95% of females (all of mine and all that I have ever checked) will probe less than 4 scales unless the hemipenis homolog has been punctured by an inexperienced prober. In most cases, using the correct size probe and technique, it doesn't feel like the probe really goes anywhere with a female. Most males will be greater than 7 scales and you can feel significant penetration of the probe. Another thing to check is the extent of vascularization (blood vessels in the tissue) at the base of the area where the hemipenis should be located. In males there are a lot of blood vessels (and thus a red appearance), in females there are not (thus a general pink appearence when healthy, however it might appear more red if you just got done probing her with a probe that is too large...ouch!). Using this method, 99% of the time I can tell a male from a female without popping or probing. Simply apply some pressure below the vent and look at the area where the hemipenes should be. This requires much less pressure than popping, but you have to know what to look for.
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when life hands you lemons, make super lemons, bumblebees, etc...

This is a picture of an adult male pastel. I applied just enough pressure to open the vent (although he popped out some sperm plugs anyway...guess he was happy to see me ). Note the color of the base of the hemipenis, he is clearly a male, even without the sperm plugs or seeing his actual hemipenis.
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when life hands you lemons, make super lemons, bumblebees, etc...

male picture

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when life hands you lemons, make super lemons, bumblebees, etc...

This is a picture of the vent area of my female ghost, again using just enough pressure to open the vent. The area at the base of the hemipenis homolog in females is not full of blood vessels (because it doesn't need to be everted). Thus it is pink in color (note: yeah there aren't any sperm plugs either, but this works with balls of all ages and sexual maturity, reguardless of ability to produce sperm plugs). Try it out with your snakes...

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when life hands you lemons, make super lemons, bumblebees, etc...

.

>>Using the correct technique 95% of females (all of mine and all that I have ever checked) will probe less than 4 scales unless the hemipenis homolog has been punctured by an inexperienced prober.

Yes, therein lies the rub. And one of the reasons why this is a topic which always provokes discussion. Even using what one person or another calls their correct technique, some percentage falls outside the norm. And hence confusion can arise.

For the thread starter: Search on "probing" or "sexing" and "ball" and settle in for some extended reading.

-Joan

Well, I honestly wondered about my probes because they are small, I Have never hear of the 1/4 thing before though. I've been using these probes on all sorts of snakes for a few years now. I tend to use an antibiotic ointment as a lube, just in case there is irritation.

When I popped them, I did notice they were all the lighter pink, not red, which is why I say they popped female.

Thanks for your help. I think I got it figured out, or at least, mostly!

Sarah
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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

Yeah, you can probably attribute the deeper probing to the fact that your probes are smaller than they should be. NOte that this also will make it more likely to puncture the female if you are not careful. You can get a good probe set at most shows for like $20 that has several different sizes.
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when life hands you lemons, make super lemons, bumblebees, etc...

just pop them, if you see white horns there females, end of story.