Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys,

Im planning on getting into dart frog keeping. I have plenty of experience in herps and have done my research on them. I leaning towards Phllobates terribilis or a Dendrobates tintorius. If these arent good for begginers please state why and express a species that maybe better suited for me. As far as i have been told these are pretty good begginer darts and they would work out best for me because i dont really want to deal with the whole fruit flies ( but will if i have to!) I have a 20 gallon long ( 36 in long x 12 in deep x 12 in tall) cage that im setting up soon.

My questions are....

1. Do dart frogs need to be kept together in pairs or groups?

2. What is the best substrate..soil, moss, leaf litter, or coco fibers?

Any help would be awesome and most appreciated!
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eric

Come on can somebaody please reply to the question i asked above! IT would be greatly appreciated....
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eric

Sorry for the delay. P. terribilis are really good frogs in groups, and you could put about four in a 20 gallon setup. tinctorius are more territorial and are better in mated pairs, especially in a 20 gallon, which is small by their territorial standards. I love the mint green terribilis, although "green" seems to be a silly color to choose when one is dealing with the most colorful frogs on earth. There are a lot of green frogs, but none quite this same somewhat iridescent seafoam shade they become as adults. It's almost like they are sprinkled with powdered silver. (Froglets and juveniles aren't very impressive.) They are quite bold and uninhibited by your presence, and quickly learn where and when you feed them. They aren't the most active and exploring frogs among the darts, but they will use all levels of a 20 gallon tank. I have some of the orange ones too, but their color isn't as appealing to me as the mint green.

If you can afford them, a pair of D. azureus (closely related to the tinctorius, and probably really shouldn't have been separated from that species into a different one,) are beautiful, large, relatively bold and easy to keep. They are still relatively expensive, especially in mated pairs, which is strongly recommended.

Other good group frogs are Dendrobates leucomelas, (also among the least expensive), D. galactonotus (harder to get and more costly,) and D. imitator. The latter is a thumbnail frog, which is a bit intimidating at first, because they are so tiny. But they are hardy enough fellows and really active in groups.

Stick with the general rule of 1 frog per 5 gallons for the groupies, and 1 pair in 20 for the larger territorial guys, and it will be about right.

Remember that so called "arboreal" darts aren't necessarily strictly "arboreal." Most will use all levels of a tank that you can provide. And the terrestrial fellows will and do climb and use the higher reaches of a tank. They come from vast rainforests, where the distances aren't as confined or squashed into inches instead of meters.

Have fun with this. It is always great to have someone new to darts, especially someone with other herp experience. You will love them and become addicted.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

I forgot to post a picture of one of my mint greens apparently awed by the "frog god" in the vivarium.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

The info I was given when I went looking for frogs is to find one of the easier frogs to keep ( Patty gave you the list that I was pretty much given) Then choose the one you really like. Thay are such pretty frogs, no reaso not to get the one that appeals to you the most. Then find out if that frog is a "groupie" or if it is territorial then get a pair or a group of the one you have chosen and will fit best in the enclosure you have set up.
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Be Happy, Be Healthy, Be Blessed
Jean

That frogs. The fake one that is so cute.. I want one

My son is a sculptor (with a sense of humor.) This is one of his ceramic designs (a belching frog.) It is holding it's belly, and has an uvula, as well. When I told him that frogs don't have uvulas, he merely said, "well, they ought to." He also designed a "fart frog" for me. This one is pretty raunchy, but still cute, depending upon your definition of "cute."

I'll ask him if he has another belching frog, and let you know. If so, I'll have him send you one. Each one is just a bit different because he sculpts them from clay individually, doesn't use a mold. I think he made about 6 of them over-all. Mine is the only one that he designed to hold water at my request. The body is filled with water and gravel, and the water in the mouth catches spashes from the waterfall, so stays pretty fresh. I thought it might be a good place for thumbnails to deposit tads, but it ended up in the terribilis tank. He isn't doing much sculpture at present since he went back into geology and will be going to Ghana soon to do some drilling for a Canadian Company, but may have one or two left. I'll e-mail him tonight about it.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

Please please still have one. i would gladly pay for one. i seen a pic you had posted a while back and thought it was the cutest frog I had seen. You guys are a really great group here. Thank you again for even the effort and thought

Hello.

I am new to Dart Frogs. I have spent the last week reading everything I can find online. So I now know enough to realize I don't know much.

Anyways, I have been offered a dendrobates pumilio (Strawberry?). Unless there is unique needs, I feel fairly confident as to the physical care of dart frogs. My concern however is in the social grouping. What, if any, company would or could I consider with this dendrobates pumilio. The tank is 20 gallons. I think I would be happy with only say 3 or 4. But from reading your post I wonder if I should be grouping this with three othee dendrobates pumilios or pick some other species. Could you tell me my options. And if some species will work and others not, let me know which.

My experience has been with marine fish. So I am accustomed to high maintenance pets that require social considerations per tank. And I don't want to make a mistake.

Thank you for your time,
Christian

Pumilios are extremely territorial and intolerant of others of the same sex, especially. A 20 gallon would be about right for a mated pair. The problem is they are very difficult to sex correctly and mated pairs are difficult to come by. I just lucked out and with my first 4 pumilio bastimentos, got 2 males and 2 females that I keep in two separate tanks in pairs. I also lucked out by guessing the sexes correctly by body habitus, quite by accident. Actually, with one pair, I was wrong on both counts and didn't know it until I saw the male transferring a tadpole, and later, witnessed him calling the female to feed it. (With pumilios, it is usually the male that does this duty.) Usually, you would keep each separately in nursery tanks until you hear calling--and that's a male, then try it together with one of the non-callers if you purchase a group of them, gradually pairing them up in this manner. This is a pretty expensive proposition, because these guys aren't cheap, and even if you order four, there's still a chance they may all be the same sex. Sometimes a few can be kept in a very large tank with lots of bromeliads, provided it is large enough that they don't see each other, or at least this is what Patrick Nabors told me. They use all areas of a tank from top to bottom. They often hunt on the substrate, and mine hang out a lot in a rocky, shallow pool on the bottom of their 33 gallon hex tanks and can be found anywhere within it, so their territory is pretty large by terrarium standards. I think their extreme territorial defense (and their tiny size) is why people don't recommend them for first frogs. Otherwise, they are delightfully active and as easy to keep as the larger frogs.

This is information is a little discouraging, I know--especially with a chance to get one of the "strawberry" ones.

If you like thumbnails, that also raise their own tadpoles, but aren't obligate egg feeders, the imitators do get along well in groups. The females do fight, eat each other's eggs, but still manage to raise a tadpole or two on their own. They just don't seem to ever actually harm each other physically, or intimidate each other to the point of stressing one of them to death. Mine are actually much more bold and active in groups than when they are separated into mated pairs.

In any event, I wouldn't recommend mixing different species, especially in a 20 gallon, and definitely not a pumilio with anything else.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

Eric,
For your soil question... I am as new to this as you are but I've read a great deal here lately. From what I can tell most people make their soils outta 2 or 3 or even more ingredients (usually the main indredient seems to be coco bedding because it doesn't break down in wet habitats, Often tree fern fiber, sphagnum moss, & bark mulches will be added as well). Be sure & use a false bottom to give your soil proper drainage. Live moss can be grown on top of your soil layer for a greeer, plushier look.

Derrick