Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok. Let me make sure all bases are coveres. I have a Fresh Air habitat. I have a Reptisun 5.0. Only a few weeks since I got it. So it is new. I have a heat basking spot about 90 degrees. The rest of the enclosure ranges from 75. At night it never gets below about 67. Usually I keep the apartment around 68-70 at night. Lights off for chams. I feed crickets for now since they are about 2 mos old. I dust the crickets with Herptivite and Repcal with Vit D3 I use the mix 50% 50%. I mist 2-3 times a day. I have gut loaded the crickets with potato and kale, and I will be getting orange and sweet potato. I try to give the crickets a variety. Is there anything I am forgetting???? Thanks. I am housing Navi and Nigel together for now. We are going to build a nice enclosure for them when they get older with seperate sides, live plants about 3x3x4 Is that good?? I will seperate them around 4 mos. Is that right???? Thanks!!!

This is what I do in the way of supplementing my young (not full grown) veileds...I use herptivite twice a month, lightly dusting the crickets before I give them to the chameleons. I use Rep-cal calcium/D3 twice a month and I use Rep-cal calcium several times a week on the days that I don't use the other two.

My chameleons are kept under Repti-sun 5.0's. I have no basking light on any veileds that are under 3 months...I just use extra (regular) florescents to bring the temperatures in the cages up to the mid 80's F.

Its been quite a few years since I have had a problem with MBD keeping them this way. Most of them live to be over 7 years old, females included. I'm not saying its the only way, but it works for me.

As they approach adulthood, I cut down on the calcium a bit....the other two supplements I leave the same.

I also gutload my crickets with a WIDE variety of greens, veggies, etc. IMHO your gutload needs quite a bit of improvement.

Don't forget that once your veiled has reached about 6 months of age, it will/should eat fruits, greens and veggies and even the leaves of the plants in your cage...so the plants should be well-washed, both sides of the leaves...and non-toxic.

No substrate?? (Its a good thing IMHO not to have any...and to cover any soil in plant pots so that they can't ingest it too.

You said..."I am housing Navi and Nigel together for now. I will seperate them around 4 mos. Is that right????"...4 months of age should be fine for separating them, unless they show signs of stress in the meantime.

don't mix the dusts together. One breaks down the other (cannot recall specifics) and can render calcium(?) useless. I probably have that backwards but I recall Carlton and others commenting on it a long time ago. They should not even be used on same days.

Oh, I guess two things...as K says, you need a much better gutload. What I sometimes do is take a few fresh (even under ripe is good) veggies, chop to equal size then pulse them in the food processor a few times. I don't puree it but make it into smaller pieces mixed together which gives more surface area for more crix to feed on.

I think I gave you the list from Beautiful Dragons? and of course adcham and chamnews (and maybe cham journals?) have articles and recipes. Are you using a dry gutload as well? Strongly recommend it to help cover all bases. I vary the one on adcham and have used cricketfood.com's before, too. It is much less expensive to buy your own and you know just what is in it (like as much organic as possible).

so, how about some new pics?
adcham gutload

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Ok. I think that must be why Nigel had the salty discharge on his nose. I have been giving them the mix on all the crickets everyday. Thanks for the info. It's hard to know what to do sometimes with all the conflicting info. Will this cause any long term problems??? I gutload with potato, kale, mixed greens. I will add apple, orange, and banana. And use sweet potato instead of potato. What is good for dry gutload IYHO??? Should I get a flourescent light for them they seem to enjoy the basking spot. Is that a major problem???? What other things should I think about. What about cleaning the enclosure?? If one of us holds them and the other cleans, just with water, and puts things back exactly as they are is that ok??? I really love Nigel and Navi and want to make sure they are well cared for. Whatever I have to do. I do have a blender so I can mix the food for gutloading.

I gave you gutload link and info...gotta run, will answer more later
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Lele already posted the link to the gutload...and I should have been more clear when I talked about the supplementing....each of the three dustings that I do are on different days ( so only one kind of supplement is given on a day). Thanks Lele!

Also...the cages still have a warm area and cooler area since the lighting is all on one side...I just don't like to risk dehydrating or overheating hatchlings by using a basking light.
You said..."Should I get a flourescent light for them they seem to enjoy the basking spot."...as long as the basking light isn't so close that they can get burned and doesn't make the area extremely hot, it should be fine.

I don't think you have had the chameleons long enough to have done them any damage with the poorer gutload....or the supplementation.

You don't have to use sweet potato instead of white potato. I use both. I never use bananas because they are high in phosphorous and mold too quickly.

You asked..."What is good for dry gutload IYHO???"...I think if you check out the ADCHAM link, you will find a list of what are recommended dry items there.

You asked..."What other things should I think about"...not sure what to say about this. Temperature, hydration, full-spectrum light including UVB, feeding appropriately, keeping stress levels fairly low, branches in the cages, no substrate are the main things. Sunlight when possible (and cutting out the D3 supplement when they are getting sunlight.)

As for the cage cleaning, what kind of floor do you have in the cage? What are the walls of the cage made of?

Its obvious that you really love Nigel and Navi and want to make sure they are well cared for! It shows in your posts!

I have one of the fresh air habitats. I have silk foliage so I want to clean that. Is that ok. I am working on the gutload, and am debating on whether to switch from crickets to raoches. Thanks for all the info. I can't wait for warmer days so that I can take them outside and let them get sun and heat from that.

I have silk foliage so I want to clean that. Is that ok.

live are better in that they help maintain humidity (moisture in soil and leaves respirating) but are fine for now. I use Nolvasan (or its less expensive KHR) for cleaning and disinfecting. I rarely use bleach, in fact I don't think I use it for my herps at all, mainly my Lep (moths) sleeves and rearing stuff)

I am working on the gutload, and am debating on whether to switch from crickets to raoches.

Roaches can take months to establish a colony so that you can keep them going. Way to expensive to keep buying like crickets. I would suggest buying some of the non-climbers (I like the discoids) and get used to them, getting a colony going. I have been at it for quite sometime and still don't have a completely replenishable supply. Now I admit, I did not keep my temps as high as required over the winter and probably would have more now if I had. The orangehead nymphs are slower growers than the discoids. I am sure others have their preferences.

I can't wait for warmer days so that I can take them outside and let them get sun and heat from that.
where do you live? (forgot if you already mentioned). I am in NH and it is 63! I just toook Darwin out for a spin around the property and am thhinking of putting Cyrus' cage out for a little while. it is nice once you can get them out into the REAL sun.

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Yes, I want to get live, and I will for thier new cage. I really like the idea of live since it is natural. Where would you recommend getting the plants from. I printed your gutload link info so I can use it!! Thanks!! I live in MD it has been a little warmer and then cold again. With them being so little I want to wait till it is nice and warm to take them outside!

I thought it was MD, but wasn't sure if I might have been confusing you with someone else. So many folks here are in the HOT states or Canada, not too many of us east-coasters you, me and eve are it! JK, there must be someone else!

You have to be a bit warmer than us and we are in the 60's this week. If you place the cage outside for a short time just so they can get some real sun. Just stay with them to make sure they can get into cover or throw a towel over one corner for shade. I kept Luna's small cage on hand to put her outdoors for a few hours on nice summer days. She would always get all upset when I would first put her out there, but once she found a happy basking log she was just fine. I would often put the mist head on the hose and water her.

I get my plants at either home depot or my local nursery. I do garden design so can get wholesale, but frankly, the setups really need pretty basic plants:

umbrella plant (Schefflera)
pothos (Scindapsus)
ficus (Ficus)
croton - love crotons! (Croton)
Hibiscus -I have 2 that I'd gotten at my nursery. Right now one is in Darwin's tank and one in Cyrus. I cut them back a couple times/year to keep them flowering. Luna would often eat the flowers.
snake plant (Sansevieria)

once you get the big cage set up you can layer the plants by their light needs. Always repot with fresh soil that does not contain perlite (hard to do). If you cannot find any you can cover the pots with plastic canvas which keeps the cham form shooting anything in the soil, but lets water thru. I use it on all plants in all animal setups - cheap and works great!

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

other one being housed with them. Navi is usually brown but if I pick her up she turns green. Sometimes in her enclosure she is green but most often brown. Does this mean that I should get her a seperate enclosure. Or is something else wrong???

Signs of stress from the presence of a cage-mate can be quite subtle...or very strong. If one takes on a pattern, hisses, lunges at the other then its obvious one is stressed by the other. More subtle stresses would be hiding in one area of the cage where the other can't see it, not eating as much as it should because its trying to stay away from the other, general decline in health for instance.

Unless Navi's color changes are done when the male comes near her, they shouldn't be from HIM causing stress. It doesn't surprise me that she changes color when she comes out of her cage...its a change in "environment"...so she's sort of on the alert.

Well, I have found that within the last week, she tries to be near him and is more often green in her cage now. Last night and a few nights ago they were sleeping side by side, or one right behind the other. They seem to like each other. But we are going to start constructing a cage for them when they are full grown. I think 3x3x4. And then have a divided section. But how big should I make it to divide the center for them once I seperate them?? Thanks.

when you say full grown, you may need to separate them long before that. Typically 4 months is the "magic" # and definitley by sexual maturity as you will find personalities changing (they get all hormonal and adolescent at a 6 months - just like typical teenagers! lol!) You also don't want unexpected/unprepared-for babies. Are you thinking of breeding?

As for size, they EACH need about 2Wx2Lx4H so if you are going to build it for two and then divide make it big. Remember you want an opaque divider b/t the two.
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet