Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Im sure I am not the first to ask this. Is there a website that shows traits of what an IMG should look like? And is there any proven lines of the IMG ball pythons out there? If so, who are the breeders?

Thanks,
Kyle

I was reading the other day about an IMG that RDR is working on, he calls him "Dirty Joe". I believe he has breed him for 2 seasons, but dont remember if the results were conclusive or not. http://ralphdavisreptiles.com/collection/pythons/ball/img_ball_python.asp

Im sure there are many other people working on this, I just happen to be reading about it the other day, so I thought I would point you in that direction. Take it easy,

~Johnny

Last year RDR bred dirty joe back to a daughter and came up empty - at this point IMG doesn't look to be genetic.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

I have a snake with similar traits to Ralph's and just because they were born "normal" doesn't prove or disprove the genetics because they look normal at birth and once they hit 3-6 months and upwards of 200-300 grams they change over night from what I hear (and saw). My girls transformation was very interesting. She has multiple traits I hope to prove so even if IMG isn't genetic I hope some of her other traits express. I posted pics of her last week Friday but I didn't get too many replies (other than my own LOL ) I don't know if people just over looked it due to the weekend kicking off or if I needed a better title lol.
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we're here because a hobby became an obsession... if only every one had this much fun

some days your the dog, some days your the hydrant...don't know who started this saying but it's the truth

I also read, and I dont remember if it was at the link I gave or at his birthing records, that when he first got the snake, it was axanthinc. Just putting what I know into the pot...

~Johnny

your talking about ralph's snake right? i think he described it as a black and white snake. Mine was pale (pretty dull) but i wouldn't have called it axanthic... then again i've never saw one in person lol I have one i picked up locally which looks axanthic but im not sure i get a weird vibe from it so i keep it around just in case lol. My "IMG" is in shed now and looks so pale yet dark! i cant wait to see what happens this shed.. i anticipate she may go a shade blacker and her yellow will intensify too... im afraid to see what happens later i know the black and yellow will fade sooner or later.
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we're here because a hobby became an obsession... if only every one had this much fun

some days your the dog, some days your the hydrant...don't know who started this saying but it's the truth

yeah, I just happen to be reading about it on the RDR site a few days ago. He said that when he got it (an import if I remember right) it was very "axanthic" looking. There were no pictures of it as a baby that I could find, but it may look very similar to what you have. He also said that every shed after he got "dirty joe" he got more and more IMG like... Good luck with your IMG, I hope it proves out. IMG seems to be one of those genes that is really up in the air.. like burgs/granites/etc/ some just have the look, some actually carry a gene for the trait... Best of luck,

~Johnny

yeah she has a cool "graziani pattern", "IMG", a "ringer" and a "spot nose" with all those traits hopefully i can hit at least one lol
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we're here because a hobby became an obsession... if only every one had this much fun

some days your the dog, some days your the hydrant...don't know who started this saying but it's the truth

Thank you for all the info guys

and is technically an IMG.

since they are born with hypermelanistic look - from the pictures I've seen there is not "Increase" which would qualify it as an IMG
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

"since they are born with hypermelanistic look - from the pictures I've seen there is not "Increase" which would qualify it as an IMG"

hyper = increase!

melanin-a dark pigment

IMG-increased melanin gene

And since sables appear darker and the super form is quite dark...you do the math.

I agree.

I agree with Tosha, If a ball is hatched dark it is not an increase in melanin. IMG's are normally hatched like any ole normal and as they get older they get darker.
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Allison Maynard

I think we are pretty much splitting hairs - it is my understanding that the IMG morph (for lack of a better term) would start out as a normal in appearance ball and over the course of it's life increase the amount of melanin it produces so that it appears (later in life) black.

If this is the true and correct definition then the sables who are born with the hypermelanistic look would not qualify. If you are judging only the amount of pigment the animal produces - then any hypermelanistic ball would be considered IMG.

So what we really need is a more exact definition of the term IMG where it applies to ball python morphs.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

Is an IMG a snake that develops a darker color, or one that is born with a darker color than the standard ball python. Are we splitting hairs? Yes. Anyone complainin' didnt think so...
Aw, just kidding people, I hear if you feed your snakes African Soft Furred Rats they turn darker...

Johnny Out

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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

may be the only REAL IMG out there???

....there are others that are close and alot that think they are close..........(and thousands with one scale that turned darker)....

.....sable counts to me

increased.....increasing.......same difference
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you think????

An IMG(INCREASING MELANIN GENE)is an animal that has an appreciable increase in the amount of melanin(black pigment)during maturation and into adulthood. Somewhat akin to a toe-headed kid's hair getting darker with age.

A Hypermelanistic is an animal with an increased amount of melanin at birth. The amount of increase in melanin can vary dramatically, but the key to what a "Hypermelanistic" is, is that it requires the animal to have more melanin than the standard "Wild Type".

So in closing, a Sable/Super Sable can be both a Hypermelanistic and an IMG at the same time, but the animal would have to darken noticeably more from birth onwards.

-Dan

When I first got this IMG it looked like a really nice axanthic but he had really bright yellow spots on his back,{ which you can still see } After about a year he darkened up to what you see now. He seems to get darker with every shed, He has three females gravid right now but It will take at lease two years to know if any of the offspring are IMG's. Thanks Erick
{ exotic designs }

Really NIce, I hope he proves out for you.

I own Sables i breed them last year and hatched out clutches from them. The original male was bought by my best friend Aaron Burkett. I bought my original pair from him. His brother Eric ended up with them and proved the super last season. They are indeed born DARK . After haching them and raising them and owning adults and knowing the original male and the rest of the females in his collection, i can testify that they are NOT IMG. They are born the same way they mature, they do not get darker with age, they are just born that way as a co-dom triat. The super is darker but only b/c it is the Dom form of the Sable gene. So far as far as we can see the Super does not darken with age either. The Sable gene also changes pattern, the supers pattern is much mre aberant and you can also see it in the Sables. Since Sables are proven and IMG are not they cant be the same animal B/c then an IMG would be a proven Co-dom.
kim

Awesome Pictures!!!

Thanks for sharing.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin